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Lds Musician Resigns Membership - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 28th Feb, 2008 - 9:12pm
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Peter Danzig
Lds Musician Resigns Membership
What do you think about the issue of Peter Danzig, his stand on Gay Marriage, the Church removing him from the LDS Orchestra and his decision to remove his name from Church records?
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| ROSE PARK -- Peter Danzig did not set out to be a Mormon activist. The gentle musician spent his life serving the church he loved. He went on a mission, married in the temple, composed pieces for Mormon pageants, and taught hymns to children. He and his wife, Mary, also a returned missionary, were raising their three daughters in Levan, but driving to Salt Lake City each week to play in the LDS Orchestra at Temple Square - he on viola, she, the violin. Both believed their music was their gift to God. Danzig said nothing in 1993 when church officials charged six well-known Mormon scholars and intellectuals with apostasy for their writings or speeches about LDS issues. He kept quiet when Brigham Young University fired history professor Steven Epperson, a member of Danzig's Mormon congregation, for serving the homeless rather than attending church. But in 2006, Danzig finally felt compelled to protest. BYU adjunct professor Jeffrey Nielsen lost his job for arguing in a The Salt Lake Tribune column that the LDS Church was wrong to oppose gay marriage and to enlist Mormon support for a constitutional amendment against it. The dismissal appalled Danzig, who had explored the questions of homosexuality while pursuing a graduate degree in clinical social work. "I wish to express to Jeffery Nielson that I admire his courage and that I stand with him," Danzig wrote in a letter The Tribune published on June 14, 2006. "I was troubled that my church requested I violate my own conscience to write in support of an amendment I feel is contrary to the constitution and to the gospel of Christ." |
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Well, the Church have replied concerning the issue of Peter Danzig but I am a bit confused and I would like some feedback. Based on the statement I am reading: Those who do not agree with the Church with regards to the Federal amendment opposing same gender marriage and voice their opinion publicly about it are going to get in trouble and possibly face disciplinary action?
Danzig decided to remove his membership before it reached that stage but it is obvious (based on the chain of events) that he was asked to change his mind on the issue or else.
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| LDS Church officials declined to be interviewed about Peter Danzig's case for the story, "Debate on gays forces musician out of LDS," but the church issued the following statement Sunday after the story's publication: Church leaders are always saddened when an individual, whether through his or her actions or personal choices, decides to leave the Church. A welcoming hand of fellowship is always extended to those who wish to return at anytime. Every organization, religious or secular, has to determine where its boundaries begin and where they end. The Apostle Paul said that the original Church was organized to help members to be "no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine." (Ephesians 4:14) Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are encouraged to study, learn and ask questions in their quest for knowledge. Gordon B. Hinckley, 15th president of the Church said: "This Church came about as a result of intellectual curiosity. We believe in education we expect them (Church members) to think. We expect them to investigate. We expect them to use their minds and dig deeply for knowledge in all fields." However, it is not acceptable when their digging and questioning leads to public opposition against doctrine Church leaders are obliged to uphold. That doesn't mean that Church leaders don't listen and consider opposing views. Quite the contrary. Local bishops and stake presidents (congregational leaders) love and are concerned about all members of the flock. This is the purpose of counseling provided by local Church leaders who know and care for each individual in their congregations. Honest disagreements are not the same as public advocacy of positions contrary to those of the Church. When disagreements arise, the principle of the Church is that local leaders discuss these matters with members with love and concern. This was the case with Peter Danzig. On 23 February 2008 The Salt Lake Tribune posted an article about Mr. Danzig who was a member of the Church's Orchestra at Temple Square. According to the story, in June of 2006 Mr. Danzig published a letter-to-the-editor in the Tribune (and letters in other local newspapers) encouraging members to oppose Church leaders on the issue of same gender marriage. In his Tribune letter-to-the-editor, Mr. Danzig said he "was troubled that my church requested I violate my own conscience to write in support of an amendment I feel is contrary to the constitution and to the gospel of Christ." In reality Church leaders had asked members to write to their senators (link to letter in Newsroom) with their personal views regarding the federal amendment opposing same gender marriage, and did not request support or opposition to the amendment. Initially Orchestra leaders met with Mr. Danzig to see if his public advocacy of this issue could be reconciled. Finding no resolution, they contacted the Office of the First Presidency, and were instructed to refer the matter to Mr. Danzig's local Church leaders, as Church protocol requires. Mr. Danzig was asked to take a leave of absence from the orchestra until the matter had been resolved. For more than a year and a half, Mr. Danzig counseled with his local bishop and stake president regarding same gender marriage and other Church doctrines. |
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That is ashame for him to lose his Membership over this issue. I believe the main problem is his position in the Church. It is one thing to express a concern, but another to seek an article to be published saying you think the Church is wrong.
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"I was troubled that my church requested I violate my own conscience to write in support of an amendment I feel is contrary to the constitution and to the gospel of Christ." |
Did the Church tell Mr. Danzig to write in support of the Federal Marriage amendment. No.
But Mr Danzig actively and openly told members of the church go against church standards and doctrines.
From Matthew 12:25
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25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: |
The Church cannot remain strong if its membership is continually trying to change its doctrine according to the political wims of the day.
The Church does not discipline people for their political beliefs. They do however discipline those who are actively trying to fight against church doctrine and try to get others to do the same.
I would cite Harry Reed, the left leaning Mormon Nevada Senator,who has voted against the amendment. He did not however tell the Member of the Church to fight against Church Doctrine and leaders who were on the other side. He is trying to change the country, not the Church. The distinction I believe is a significant one. You can disagree politically with the Church, but to actually state that members should fight against Church Doctrine crosses a line, I would think.
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Dbackers:
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| Did the Church tell Mr. Danzig to write in support of the Federal Marriage amendment. No. |
Aren't you in the US? Didn't your Bishop read a letter from the First Presidency urging the members to write to senators concerning the Federal Marriage Amendment? I read the letter of the First Presidency and is very clear.
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| But Mr Danzig actively and openly told members of the church go against church standards and doctrines. |
How? What he did was ask those members who also have an issue with the matter to let themselves known. I don't see anything wrong with that. I almost feel like the Church is expecting us to disagree in private but agree in public and that's hypocritical in my opinion.
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The Church does not discipline people for their political beliefs. They do however discipline those who are actively trying to fight against church doctrine and try to get others to do the same. |
Actually I have to edit the title because of a mistake of the Salt Lake Tribune, the Church did not discipline them (although it is obvious it was very close). They resigned their membership. This won't happen if the Church just decided to remain neutral in political issues. They say they are but examples like this one and the subtle opinions on illegal immigrants prove to me that the Church is actively in politics.
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| You can disagree politically with the Church, but to actually state that members should fight against Church Doctrine crosses a line, I would think. |
I don't think you can disagree with the Church publicly in any topic without getting a few calls from some leaders and if you do not change your mind, you are bound to be disciplined.
Lds Musician Resigns Membership
LDS
I am in the US.
The letter, as I recall, only asked the members to "express themselves" on the Federal Marriage amendment. It did not explicitly say that members should write one way or another. The first presidency stated the doctrine of the Church , which states that marriage is between a man and a woman. Then they left it up to the members to express their opinion. If we take from that that we have to write to support the amendment then that is our perception of the letter.
With Mr. Danzig's case, he stated that the members of the Church should fight the Churches efforts to pass the amendment. He did not just state in his opinion that members should not support the amendment. He added that they should fight against the leadership of the Church. There is a distinction.
There are plenty of members who do not support the Amendment and fight it tooth and nail, both in the Media and in the civic channels provided by our constitution. They are not being disciplined or talked to if they express their opinion publicly (the Nevada Senator is doing just that).
But Mr Danzig went further then that. He stated that members should oppose the leadership of the Church. I think Mr. Danzig let his pride dictate that he should fight this issue in the Church rather then fight it in the proper context of the media and the Government.
Thank You for clarifying that Mr. Danzig chose to leave he Church and was not pushed out.
| Rather off topic, but... Mr. Danzig , I believe would not have had an issue, if he had not put this in the context of trying to change Church policy and stating "that the LDS Church is Wrong" in its support of the Federal Marriage amendment. Even though the Church did not discipline Mr. Danzig it would have been in its right the moment he used the words " the LDS Church is wrong." If this is the lord's Church, as I believe it is, it is imperative that there be some way to curb people from actively fighting against the church and its doctrines and excommunication is one of the tools. |
Lds Musician Resigns Membership
Dbackers:
| QUOTE |
| The letter, as I recall, only asked the members to "express themselves" on the Federal Marriage amendment. It did not explicitly say that members should write one way or another. The first presidency stated the doctrine of the Church , which states that marriage is between a man and a woman. Then they left it up to the members to express their opinion. If we take from that that we have to write to support the amendment then that is our perception of the letter. |
Another use of a "technicality" by the Church in my opinion which I personally do not agree. It is obvious that after the First Presidency expressed their official view on what they consider to be marriage, and then urged the members to express themselves it is obvious what the Church is expecting from the members, to think otherwise is foolish. Yes, interpretation but you, me and everybody else know what the Church expected.
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| With Mr. Danzig's case, he stated that the members of the Church should fight the Churches efforts to pass the amendment. He did not just state in his opinion that members should not support the amendment. He added that they should fight against the leadership of the Church. |
Where does he say that? And this?:
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| But Mr Danzig went further then that. He stated that members should oppose the leadership of the Church |
| Rather off topic, but... So is the Church right on every issue that involves politics? I don't think so. |
Lds Musician Resigns Membership Mormon Doctrine Studies
| QUOTE |
QUOTE With Mr. Danzig's case, he stated that the members of the Church should fight the Churches efforts to pass the amendment. He did not just state in his opinion that members should not support the amendment. He added that they should fight against the leadership of the Church. Where does he say that? And this?: QUOTE But Mr Danzig went further then that. He stated that members should oppose the leadership of the Church |
From the article:
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According to the story, in June of 2006 Mr. Danzig published a letter-to-the-editor in the Tribune (and letters in other local newspapers) encouraging members to oppose Church leaders on the issue of same gender marriage |
Personally I believe that the Church may explicitly come out and state someday that one cannot be a member in Good standing and then declare publicly that Homosexual Marriage is a correct principle. That is of course my opinion.
This is the reason I believe this:
What if someone in Church (especially one in public prominence) stated and tried to teach other members of the Church: It is OK to Cheat on your wife (mind you I am limiting this to teaching members of the church this either in public or in a church setting)?
Is that any difference for some one in public prominence saying that Homosexual Marriage should be normalized? If a stake President came out publicly and stated "Cheating on ones wife should be encouraged by the state and we should do everything in our power to fight to oppose church leadership in their antiquated view that fidelity in marriage should be encouraged." Does it not seem logical that a Member of the Church (especially on that has some sort of public prominence) could be Excommunicated for teaching that infidelity should be encouraged.
What is the difference between teaching Adultery is right publicly and we need to oppose the Churches teaching on this, and a person teaching that Homosexual marriage is right publicly and we need to oppose the Churches teachings on that? Are we so afraid of offending Homosexuals that we do not excommunicate someone for teaching that infidelity is correct or someone who teaches that Homosexuality is correct (Sins that are equally heinous)?
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