Related Information to Polygamist - FLDS

Polygamist - FLDS - Page 7

Nighthawk has a point in condeming Texas Child Protective Services. Actually most states have a CPS that is seriously understaffed and those who do staff these organizations are seriously undertrained.
Here in Virginia a few years ago we had the death of a child in a most despicable way and the CPS were brought under intense scrutiny as the abuse of this child and her siblings was reported no less than 13 times and nothing was done. The child who was killed was found, one time, walking dark country roads very late at night, in winter, without a coat. She was only 7 at the time. She was put into the temporary custody of the officer who found her and while his wife was giving the girl a bath it was noted and documented that her back was covered with scars of lacerations. All this was brought before the court, the officer and his wife wanted to retain custody as the child was clearly in an abusive situation but the judge on the urging of the CPS sent her back home! Two years later she was dead.
I got personally involved in this case as we looked at the house that was right next door to the one in which she had last lived. IF we had taken that house then I would have known this child. In my investigations I discovered that the reason Virginia CPS returns children to their own home is that the ability to effectively investigate elective foster and temporary homes is so poor that more children ARE abused in foster care than if they are returned to their native families! I was absolutely shocked about this, but statistics uphold it.

Texas CPS separating all the children from their mothers I do not believe is correct. As each investigation is accomplished, the children found to not be abused, neglected or in suspect care should be returned to their native mothers immediately. Keeping the under 4 or 5 year olds with their mothers is commendable but the children from 6 to 16 being separated from loving mothers is still traumatic. My daughter is 19 and has difficulty leaving me!

I'm also concerned for the sexist attitude of the authorities as reported by the news clippings. Just studying human nature and animal drives, it isn't only the men who can be abusive in a group home. With more than one woman "the woman of the house" a "pecking order" comes into play and the senior female is not always the eldest one. It will be the strongest one. I know this because I have lived in a "group" home. It was not specifically a polygamous household but there was a married couple and the two sisters living together. It was not the "wife" who was the strongest personality in the home. Everyone takes a role in these kinds of situations. Among the women the strongest female could easily have been abusive to the other women or their children in order to maintain her place as head of household. Some men are ignorant of this tendency in humans. Just as older children often bully younger ones, or a very strong personality in a child will terrorize all his or her siblings, the same would be true of the "sisters" in a group marriage.

Nighthawk is also correct in assaying that we can never know the whole truth until the members of this community speak for themselves and the reports from the authorities are released. The media is biased to the extreme, no matter what media you choose. As to his question of why it is taking so long to come to a final conclusion, with over 400 children to evaluate, this is going to take months if not years to resolve. There just isn't the manpower to do it faster.

All in all, my heart goes out to all the people involved in this case. The residents of the ranch, the children, and the authorities directly involved. This is not easy for anyone. Having their lives scrutinized and battered over the media is also something hard to deal with for all these people. My understanding of the reason they established this community was to be left alone now everything they've ever done will come under public scrutiny. For those not at any fault I feel sorry. Living in a fishbowl is not a comfortable place to be. For those who are at fault, I sincerely desire their actions come to light and are punished appropriately. Fundamentalism and Fanaticism are not that different extremism is inexcusable in any circumstance.

FLDS Polygamist

I agree to you whole heartily. I feel that it is going to be a long time before the full truth is out there for us to actually make a judgement that is not biased by the media or the authorities. I just hope the children are able to cope with all of this.

Polygamist - FLDS Beliefs Religious General

Nighthawk, no one is defending how Texas is dealing with the matter, in fact I think we all here agree that it is distasteful, however you have chosen to forget the real issue at hand and chose to focus on one that is really the aftermath of why Texas is involved in the first place. The questions are simple:

1. It is OK to break the law because your religion says you are above it?
2. Is it OK to have religious marriages and then claim welfare because you are legally single with child?
3. Is it OK to marry children if the law says they are underage?
4. Is it OK to marry many women if it is against the law?

A wrong by the State of Texas does not make what the FLDS do right, so with the Art of Discussion in mind, that is... if you can still actually Discuss without becoming emotionally involved - what's your point?

Page 7 FLDS Polygamist

JB asked some very important questions that many religious fundamentalist groups choose to ignore. He asked

I do not think any country, even those led largely by their predominant religion would sanction a "yes" answer to any of these questions, with the possible exception of what we have had publicized in media of some of the predominantly Muslim nations.

Personal choice ends where the law begins. Everyone is entitled to basic human rights and that includes the right to a "normal" happy childhood which should not be shortened simply because one's body is "mature" enough to bear children. The truth is that even when a child begins menstruating it does NOT mean they are either physically or mentally mature enough for sex and pregnancy. It is generally accepted among the medical community that any girl is not physically mature enough for successful and NON-HARMFUL pregnancy until they stop growing physically, usually around 16 or 17. A child's mental state is individual and any given person may not be mature enough to deal with children EVER. I've known women who should never have children at all because they, themselves, do not have the mental and emotional capacity to care for someone who is not capable of caring for themselves.

Creating a situation where many women "serve" only one man is making a potentially bad situation worse. As I said in my last post, now the "pecking order" comes into play and it is not unheard of for the female fighting for dominance to harm or even kill a lesser female's children just to hold onto her place. Give humans a "pack" environment and they WILL fall to pack mentality. Survival of the fittest comes into play. I do not sanction polygamy or polyandry because it creates this "pack" mentality. For survival of the species ... maybe ... but that is not the case here.

FLDS Polygamist

They Are Wrong!

AP: Appeals court rules Texas had no right to seize hundreds of children from polygamous sect.
Ref. CNN

Polygamist - FLDS

Texas is going to appeal this decision so they are not giving up so easily. It is a temporary victory for the FLDS.

Polygamist FLDS - Page 7

They will lose. How in the world are they going to prove that more than 400 kids were in imminent danger?

Polygamist FLDS General Religious Beliefs - Page 7

I am not sure they have to prove that all the kids were in danger. IF you prove that many were lets say around 200 or half because they were female were in danger or had been abused would normally qualify you to take all the children and make sure the others had not or were not in danger. The fact that texas lost the first case does not mean the fight is over.

One thing that is sure to come out of all of this is how people look at the LDS church now. Many I think are not going to look at it as a whole favorably due to the actions of the FLDS. I just hope they can look past this and see that not all LDS is like this.