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ICon Pathfinder Kingmaker Stolen Land - Page 115

Ignoble says...

Mykael shrugs slightly at the exchange between Archival and Zork "Different cultures may have different definitions of what constitutes justice, I suppose" He says simply "A victim-less crime is still a crime is it not? And who's to say that disturbing that tomb would be a victim-less crime; who's to say it would be a crime at all?

I'll kill a man if he tries to kill me or my comrades, and I won't feel bad about looting his body; that to me is a fair part of the consequences for the mans actions if you ask me, by his actions he has forfeited his life and his property. Consequences...instant justice so to speak. But I didn't kill that man back there, nor did he try to kill me and I don't fancy myself a robber of graves.

Would it be right for us to walk into the cemetery in Restov and start digging up graves to take whatever spoils we find? Would that be a victim-less crime? Or would that only be ok if Restov were abandoned, effectively making them ruins? This was no different in my eyes. Someone felt that person was worthy of burial and he was likely buried with the things that were important to him in life."

Mykael shrugs again and smiles "But then again, maybe I'm in the wrong line of work, having that kind of attitude. Is that the moral hill I would choose to die on? No, not really. You want to loot the grave, do so I won't stop you, hell if it was important to you, being someone I consider a comrade, I'd probably help you do it particularly if what we found would help the group as a whole. I just think there are some things that need to be taken into consideration when taking those kinds of actions, that's all."

Land Stolen Kingmaker Pathfinder ICon

"Is it justice to punish someone for doing something that harms no one? If there is no victim - what harm has been caused? How can something be considered a crime if no one is effected by the action? If a man steals from your house, a crime has been committed because your property has been taken. If you pick a berry from a tree in the forest - one that is not maintained by someone, is it a crime? No, it is not. The tree cares not - it is fulfilling its purpose by bearing fruit.

Killing a man that is attempting to harm someone else is different entirely from picking the berry. There is no similarity. If you are fine with looting the corpse of an attacker, then why did you take issue with Zork utilizing the equipment we found earlier? The owner is not dead, to the best of our knowledge. My idea of finding the owner was because he likely used the belongings to secure safe passage and would appreciate having them be returned to him. I understand wanting to see it worn by someone that upholds the deity's values, but why is there a difference in your eyes? It's not consistent with your approval of 'finders keepers,' so to speak.

When I die, my belongings are no longer mine. I am dead - gone. Material possessions mean nothing to the deceased. Again you provide a scenario that does not fit the case with your example of a graveyard in Restov. People are still caring for that area. To dig it up would injure the groundskeeper by creating additional work and by causing the families that still live in the area and likely visit the site mental anguish. The people that maintain the graveyard have a different value system because they protect their deceased loved ones and care for the site. Where are the people to care for this site? They are certainly not here, and if they truly cared they would have exhumed and relocated the body when they left."

Archival returns Mykael's smile, "As I said previously, I would not want you nor Zork to sully your conscience with an action you find morally disagreeable. I respect you all as comrades. As such, I respect your decision to not seek out the potential knowledge contained within the cairn. I respect your thoughts, even though I disagree and find your logic faulty.

Let us continue on though and pick these berries Theaton spoke of. I am sure these gentlemen would appreciate us expediting their return to civilization. Hopefully others will take the same mind set as I do and accept the fact that they have not shown aggression toward us as a signal that they are repentant of their banditry and thus deserve neither the rope nor the sword, as the charter states. I, for one, would like to assist them in finding honest work."

ICon Pathfinder Kingmaker Stolen Land Archive Pathfinder / D&D

Game Master says...

The party discuss the philosophical implications of their actions as the day draws on and by afternoon you re-enter the forest. The camp is set for the night and everyone gets a good night's rest, even Mykael's dreams are less vivid, but the full moon remains present in them.

Fireday 10 Desnus

There is a light drizzle of rain as the new day dawns. Travel straight through the forest is s than across the grass, but entirely uneventful. You find yourself setting up camp after a long day,

Starday 11 Desnus

Today's prank the fey play is quite tame by their standard. Zork and Mykael find their bags have been torn or chewed into and their spare undergarments are stained red with beetroot juice!

Exiting the forest, Oleg's lies far ahead of you on this warm day. By afternoon you arrive and are welcomed back in.

Out of Character: I will try to put the map in the Maps link and will post an updated part items list when I get them done. Do whatever you planned to in the fort.

Rather off topic, but...
Sorry about the delay in posting. I had 2 assignments due this Friday and have much more study to do for the next 5 weeks. All this while still thinking about a high school mate who killed himself 2 weeks ago. The second one from our cohort. These are morbid times.

Page 115 Land Stolen Kingmaker Pathfinder ICon

The Second says...

"Dang Fey!" Says Zork wishing that his items could be made out of cold iron as well.

Zork informs Oleg about his find in the forest and asks if he knows what it means. He also mentions the armor, sword and bandits hoping to get some insight from him about it all.

Land Stolen Kingmaker Pathfinder ICon

Ignoble says...

As the party makes its way back to Olegs, Mykael enjoys the philosophical discussion with Archival explaining that the issue he had with the items being wielded by Zork were not based on the idea that the previous owner would want them back, but rather because they bore the mark of Iomede, and in his mind such items may be wielded in the name of the goddess but they belong to the goddess and her temple rather than to the individual wielding them. Even if the crusader abandoned them for whatever reason, this did not make them any less Iomede’s, at least in Mykael’s view.

Not wishing to disturb the grave is not based on a logical argument about crime and victimization, but rather it is based on his sense of respect for whatever culture erected the cairn. On the other hand, Mykael sees Archival’s point and wonders what would be the difference between the party opening the grave and gaining the knowledge and wealth that lie within it, and an archaeologist doing so? The result is the same; the grave is disturbed in both cases and the culture that left the grave is no longer around to protest or to take offense. Has any harm truly been done, or has there been any real insult?

Does it make a difference whether the items are put to use and once again given purpose, or stored with the corpse in an abandoned grave site that no one living as any interest in? As Archival explains the difference between disturbing the graves of Restov verses the abandoned site Mykael nods thoughtfully.

“I see your point my friend” he says as they finish picking the berries “perhaps you are right. I appreciate your consideration of my conscience in this matter, but I think your logic has put my conscience at ease and if you wish to return later and seek out the knowledge contained in this site I will help you. Of course it depends on how adamant Zork is about disturbing the site; like you, I would not want to offend his conscience.”

At the camp site Mykael holds up his stained undergarments “I don’t suppose we could stop by that tree so I can leave an offering of some kind? Would that put an end to this? These pranks are starting to get old” he stuffs the undergarments back into his pack “Archival…Theaton, why are they not pestering you?”

When the party returns to Oleg’s Mykael seeks out Oleg with Zork to explain the situation with the bandits and asks him if he knows of Iomede would have any temples or clergy nearby whom they could speak to about the sword and armor.

Mykael then orders some food and ale, he sits in the common room drinking and regaling anyone that joins him with the details of the battle with the bandits; boasting about the group’s victory. To hear him tell the tale it was a pitched battle, but despite being ambushed and at a disadvantage the party dominated the battle field. He lauds the actions of his comrades, and tells about how tough Archival was, surviving the trap. He praises Theaton’s skill with a bow and Zork’s swordsmanship. The battle isn’t over until the victor boasts about it at the tavern his father’s words linger in the back of his mind.

ICon Pathfinder Kingmaker Stolen Land

Theaton enjoys listening the the two discuss the moral roads between each others and feels they both have very valid points. He looks to them both, "Each person is their own person and they are the ones that has to answer to themselves as well as live with theim selves for each action that they take or do not take. We can guess that this was the right move and later on in life find out that we should have done the opposite or find out that our actions were very correct and it pays off more. Either way it is hard to tell what the future will bring and if the decisions that we make now will effect us later on in life as a positive or a negative. But as long as we follow our values and work on being the people that we see ourselves to be we will gain greater respect for our selves as well from others that we meet and interact with."

Turning to Oleg Theaton turns over the two bandits to him and tells him of their crimes and to do with them as he sees fit.

Theaton tells everyone we move back out at first light so please get a good night of rest and be prepared.

ICon Pathfinder Kingmaker Stolen Land - Page 115

His interest piqued, Archival asks, "Oh, Oleg has a charter too? I was not made aware of this previously."

ICon Pathfinder Kingmaker Stolen Land D&D / Pathfinder Archive - Page 115

Game Master says...

In regards to the pranks, that's exactly what the others did, give an offering. Without a good knowledge of natural lore, Mykael is unsure what they will accept, but it would appear gems or coins go over nicely.

---

Oleg offers a vegetable stew for the travellers and brings Mykael an ale. He sits with you at the outdoor benches as you speak. Kesten the guard comes over and also listens in.

Neither are sure about the cairn in the grove, but they agree that it must be an artifact from when barbarians roamed the lands. However Kesten updates you with more current information he learned as a child. To the west of Brevoy lies the nation of Numeria, a land composed of barbarian tribes loosely united under the Black Sovereign. On Brevoy's border, the Sunder Horns lie to the north-west and the Tiger Lords occupy the south-west. The cairn is not in the Tiger Lords current territory and there is no record of ages past.

Oleg only recognises the symbol on the armour and sword as Iomedae's, but it is again Kesten who provides further information, "I don't know whether Restov is too chaotic for her church, or the church is too lawful for Restov, but it has never been popular there. However the capital has everything and New Stetven boasts a famous temple called the House of the Gauntlet. I can send a message up or request someone to travel down here."

Mykael tells his tale to the small audience of Oleg, Svetlana, Kesten, his 2 guards and a trapper. There is a small round of cheers and Oleg pours another mug of ale to any of the heroes.

Kesten quickly darkens the mood, "I hope you didn't embellish the story too much, I will use it as evidence. Oleg does not have a charter, but I am the closest to the law you will get out here. As it stands, these men are repentant and have witnessed the proper punishment you gave to the others. I respect your wishes to leave them alive."

"My sentence is this: the two last fingers will be cut from their right hand so they will never be able to take up arms against their fellow man. Does anyone have a problem with this?"

One of the bandits breaks down in tears, the other looks horrified and shocked. They do not speak out against the decision.

Out of Character: Sorry no map update yet, but if you take the map on page 85 Source 4m, you only explored half the forest directly west of Oleg’s (Centre-north dot the map). There are possibly still unmarked traps out there.
The party items should be updated, accessed through the Game Master character sheet. Shout if you want to sell something or if you want to give or take, or if you want to store something in Oleg’s storehouse. There’s also stuff your characters grabbed; that is some spare change and Cold Iron arrows. At some point Zork grabbed 49 gold which I assume went to the party inventory.

I also forgot to give you a reward of 900 XP for spotting 9 bear traps! This was the same day you found the bandit’s stash and the duel occurred. Unfortunately Theaton just misses the barrier to level 5.