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A Question From A Non-Mormon About the Translation - Page 5

There is a reason for everything. You are always welcomed to go wherever you feel more comfortable, no one is forcing you to participate here. Actually it is funny that you complain and yet stay, for what reason I do not know. Rants like yours seldom interest me, they are like noise between the melodee, because you claim to ask a question but then when you get answer you feel that your view point already answers it, then why ask? I guess your approach is deceptive and you should just have a Topic title, "Why I do not believe in Mormonism", and insert your points - once it is done constructively no one will reproach you for it, however your style of Discussion leaves me not interested. I want Members to feel free to actually Discuss ANY points rather than see two or three posts by someone over zealous to spread anti-Mormon doctrine and be 'heard'. You should read The Art Of Discussion.

Translation the Non-Mormon From Question A

Brick, sorry to break it to you but you did not invent the dynamite.

A lot of the questions (If not MOST) that you asked have already being answered all over the internet if you search. Personally, the reason I do not answer some of your posts is because they're extremely long and I am not interested in debating when someone who is not a members thinks they have everything figure out. Now by the other hand if you was genuinely interested in knowing more or finding out more about a particular point of doctrine, I would be more than glad to answer but when you're trying to put down the beliefs of others is not going to make your point any more credible. Respect about other people's beliefs is paramount in my books.

A Question From A Non-Mormon About the Translation Studies Doctrine Mormon

Name: Brick
Country:

Comments: Happy_LDS, I understand that you and the administrator may feel I am being "overzealous" or "ranting". Without leaving a mega-post, let me just say that I have read much of the Book of Mormon, and many of the other Mormon books (Pearl of Great Price, Doctrines and Covenants, Book of Abraham, Discourses, etc). Of course, I have also read many other books (Pro and con) on these same documents.

I have never heard (Though searching the Internet) any adequate explanation (Attempts are made of course) for lack of archaeological and historical evidence. This question has not been "answered" as you state. Now, someone can be sincere, but they can also be sincerely wrong. And if you saw your neighbor in a burning house would you not make an attempt to rescue them---even if they "sincerely" believed there was no reason to do so? Therefore, if I see people following a doctrine that I know without a doubt will lead them away from, rather than to the truth, would I be showing love if I simply ignored it? That's why I post. During the 1800's many "pernicious doctrines" (Paul called it that) sprang up. Mormonism is one of them. The Bible says to "earnestly contend for the faith"(Jude)---why? To try to lead ones back to the true faith---as Jude is all about false teachers.

If one accepts a path solely based on some "inward feeling", and fails to "investigate" what they believe, they are making a huge error. Paul himself praised some people he called the "Noble Bereans" for investigating EVERYTHING Paul said. I feel that is so important for Mormons to do. Investigate----look at what REAL evidence is there. Again, one may be totally sincere, but can be sincerely wrong.

Page 5 Translation the Non-Mormon From Question A

It has by me here: [..]
BUT it was not to your satisfaction and this is the problem I have with your style of debate. You ask for proof, when is giving to you is either NOT to your satisfaction or you quietly move on to ANOTHER topic without addressing what you asked in the first place. That's what a typical anti-mormon does and I dealt with MANY. Now, I am not saying you're one. I could careless. What I am saying is that this debate will not go nowhere because as you said:

You have your mind set and is fine with me. Mine and many here are set as well. So why can't you let it go and respect OUR right to believe as much as we respect your right to NOT believe?

If your purpose is to warn others that following the LDS doctrine will take people away from God and truth then you have done it, and your posts will remain here and people will read it. What is next Brick if you have fulfilled what you came here to do?

Translation the Non-Mormon From Question A

Brick didn't Jesus say, and I'm paraphrasing loosely, When someone doesn't accept you message you should wipe the dust from your feet.

A Question From A Non-Mormon About the Translation

Name: Prolamar
Country:

Comments: Brick, you are right that a lot of people are irritated by your posts. I can't speak for others but I will say for myself that it's not the questions you are asking but the attitude in which you are going about it. Actions speak larger than words.

You assume that I don't think, yes? "In a sense I'm glad if it irritates you and others----maybe it will cause you to think more" I am a convert to the church. My father and my best friend both have a degree in philosophy. I was spoon fed logic. I myself have personally studied logic on my own. I'm not saying that I know it all, but what I am saying is that I did not make the decision to join the church lightly. It took me quite a while, with much research involved. EVERYTHING that you have brought up on here is not news to me. You seem to be making assumption that all Mormons have blind faith.

What I was trying to convey in my last post, that I'm not sure that you understood. You can't argue with personal testimony. I won't go into my experiences with the church on here, but I will tell you that it is not as you describe. It's more than just a warm feeling--- It's even more than just faith. And you can't argue with me or anyone else about something like that. It is very difficult to do so, logically.

Even if you are trying to save souls on here you are not doing it in the right attitude. Attacking someone's core beliefs, calling them an ignoramus (Not in that exact word) Pretending to be interested in something when really you have a hidden agenda to convert people away from the church "maybe it will cause you to think more----and put your faith not in people, or in feelings--and not even in a "church"-----but in the Lord Jesus Christ himself" Please correct me if I'm wrong. But show me in your actions rather than words, because that isn't working for you.

I would really enjoy having an intelligent open conversation with you on the topic of Jesus Christ and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but I won't even begin to broach that subject until you can show me that you are truly open to hearing what I have to say and what I have learned through both temporal research, prayer and faith. If you can do that in the right attitude I would be more than happy to return the same respect to you.

A Question From Non-Mormon the Translation - Page 5

Name: Brick
Country:

Comments: Prolamar,

I mean this very sincerely. I used to work with a Mormon who was a very, very funny guy. To this day I think of him in a very endearing way, and really appreciated the fact that he could laugh at himself, and also at his faith. He never put down his own beliefs-- I don't mean that----but he could laugh at the fact that others did not understand them, and he allowed some joking to take place as a result.

I actually invented a character called "Mighty Mormon", a "super-hero" of sorts, with a big "M" on his chest. He came to enforce the "faith" but actually wound up beating up the "brethern" rather than helping them (It was all done in a very respectful way--not to make fun of Mormonism, but to make fun of over-zealousness in defending one's faith). It was in comic book form, and I can still see him laughing heartily at the characters. I appreciated that very much, because He didn't see anything as an "attack" but as sincere questions.

Eventually he had to leave our place of employment, and I still miss him to this day. The only thing I was really stymied by though was his answers to some of the questions when I asked them quite seriously. On this board I have gotten reactions from people stating I am angry, or in "attack mode" which isn't true. He would just brush them off. I would ask why the Book of Mormon was translated into 1611 English, when Joseph Smith lived in 1820 Americal, and why those sections of Isaiah in 1 Nephi are lifted word for word from the King James version of the Bible also. I was amazed when he would say "I don't really know but I accept that Joseph Smith was a Prophet, and if God wanted him to translate it into King James English so be it".

All I could think was "He would believe anything Joseph said then, it wouldn't matter. He doesn't need proof---and even if it is ridiculously illogical he will still believe it without really investigating it at all". I asked him several of the questions I am asking here----how could 2 million people, with all of their armour, horses, food, utensils, palaces, towers, dwelling places, garbage all die near the Hill Cumorah and then simply "vanish" with absolutely no archaeological evidence to show they were ever there? He would make the same replies others make here "well, bodies can decay away into nothing you know" or "In forested areas bodies decay faster", etc. But we're talking about as many people as live in San Diego here---even if a thousand years passed, some remains of San Diego are going to remain-----2 million people is a lot of people!

So, I just have to say---I am not "anti-Mormon", nor am I angry at Mormons. I remember my associate from work as a very sincere and good person. But as I have stated before, he was very "sincere", but also I feel, "sincerely wrong". Being able to "brush off" questions that are very valid is not a wise thing to do----it is far better to investigate them--if any doubt arises---check it out---don't buy someone elses line about it. Find out how and why 2 million people simply vanished without a trace. Mormons are very good people---and very sincere in most cases. I just think they need to have minds that work a bit more logically and analytically---I think if they used those facets, you'd see a lot more questioning going on, rather than blind acceptance of things that in no way can be proven.

A Question From Non-Mormon the Translation Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5

Brick sorry but you're like a broken record. How many times you would say the same thing, over and over and over and over? You want Mormons to be open minded, "have minds that work a bit more logically and analytically"? Fine! you said it so many times. So what is next or you will repeat yourself in the next 24 posts?