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Does DNA Matter

Does DNA Matter

Recently an article was published regarding the DNA of Native Americans. In the Mormon faith, Native Americans are descendants of the Nephites and Lamanites of Hebrew origin. However, DNA testing has shown that it is impossible for the Native Americans to be of Hebrew descent. In fact, their DNA shows that they are descendant from Asian sources. Being that the large majority of the Book of Mormon is written by the supposed Nephites and their founder Nephi, how does this effect the LDS doctrine?
If you are an LDS member, how does this effect your faith, and why? I do understand that Joseph Smith claimed this to be the most perfect book in all the world. Source 9

Matter DNA Does

Latter-Day Saints can find possible answers within this Thread: BOM Verified? The First Step? for replies and DNA related interest into the Book of Mormon.

Does DNA Matter Studies Doctrine Mormon

While there is a lot of fuss about the studies that claim that no Native Americans could be descendants of Hebrews, there is an awful lot of wiggle room in that claim as well.

For example, most people, both in and out of the LDS church, seem to think that the Book of Mormon claims that these people are ONLY descended from Hebrews. However, that is NOT the fact. There are great indications that the people of the Book of Mormon were a relatively small population, in which case they would most likely have been very heavily mixed up (genetically) with others from the local population.

Another area for thought is the question of how closely the DNA of present day Hebrews (Jews) are related to Hebrews of 2600 years ago? What shifts have there been? How much of the current DNA makeup is a result of intermixing with Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, and North Africans, as well as Europeans over the centuries? Do the distinctive markers within the Jewish people come from intermarrying with any of these groups?

Here is a very nice article addressing this question far better than I ever could:
https://www.fairlds.org/pubs/conf/2003MelJ.html

The article contains a lot of discussion about the biological aspects, but also points out that the influence of the Hebrews in the New World may have been much more in the form of the Covenant that they brought with them. This idea is particularly strong when we consider the congruence of LDS theology and practices with some of the more insular Native American groups, particularly the Hopi nation. There is an awful lot of information available that tie Native American traditions and histories closer to Christianity than most would be willing to admit, and there are even closer to ties to LDS beliefs.

Matter DNA Does

From reading the article above, as well as a few others is that the reason it is being used against the LDS church is because they believe the LDS church claims all NA came from Hebrews. If this is not the case, then a large problem comes into the argument because only a relatively small amount of NA's were tested. If not all NA's were descended from the Jaredites and Nephites, then it would remain likely that other asiatic peoples could have also crossed the bearing straight and thus create another group of indians. Over time, the tribes could have also intermingled and made tracing genetics very difficult. It would also be possible that they simply didn't test any native americans that were descendant from Hebrews.

I know its odd having someone help answer their own question, but Nighthawks links opened up other possibilities I had not considered yet.

Matter DNA Does

This is a modern misconception about DNA research, that DNA can prove everything. If you take two people that are "pure blood" of two different cultures and then their child would be a mixed blood. you continue interpolluting for say 300 or 400 years then the original DNA of the first parents can not be detected. If people would understand this then they would be a little wiser in not trusting in the DNA results that are being discussed.

Does DNA Matter

Wow, we could go on about this forever. As was stated above, the DNA studies done prove nothing. If anything they have helped us learn more about BOM times. In fact, we know the other group of people in the BOM were called "Jaredites" and were of the tribe of "Cush". We know these people were all "destroyed", but many scholars now believe that they were destroyed in the same way the Nephites were destroyed. See, although some Nephites defected to become robbers and Lamanites in the last battle, they were still technically of Nephite blood, but were no longer called Nephites. Many scholars now believe that the Jaredites were destroyed in the same way in that all who called themselves Jaredites were destroyed, but that some of the people of that lineage ran away scattered on the face of the land. We now believe that since the Jaredites were from Cush, and the Cushites were black, that perhaps the Lamanites mixed with some of these defected Jaredites in order to attain their darker skin (some believe the Jaredites were the dark skinned "Olmecs" of the ancient Americas). After all, the Lamanites did basically control the borders of the land. Also, we have evidence that there HAD TO be other people than the Nephites/Lamanites. For example, Jacob argues with an "Anti-Christ" with a Jaredite name who claims he does not know or recognize...yet there were so few Nephites and Lamanites by that Year (Jacob 7) that Jacob should've known EVERYONE by name, especially anyone old enough to be able to put forth such an argument. Many use this as evidence that Nephites and Lamanites were mixing with other people as well, but these people were also called "Nephites or Lamanites" based on tradition given by Nephi to call all "believers" as "Nephites" and non-believers as "Lamanites" so he didn't have to keep distinguishing the different tribes. There are some examples of this such as when they found a HUGE group of people called the Mulekites. Such a HUGE event was discussed thoroughly since these people were also from Jerusalem. There are other evidences as well, such as having a Nephite apostle with a Greek name (Thomas), that indicates to us that perhaps other cultural influences came over as well. I could go on and on and on about this...but it is naive for anyone to assume that there was no other DNA involved. We admit and know there was for sure. There are countless explanations. Heck, for all we know, the Jaredite blood mixed with the Nephites/Lamanites might be what makes it show up as Asian DNA (though I doubt it). I believe that Asians migrated over here and mixed with the others which is why we have their DNA in there. I read an interesting article by non-Mormons not long ago that argued that Indians were definitely not just of Asian decent because of the common blood type. American Indians have a certain blood type that is really common among Jews, but not very common among Orientals. It is interesting that blood type would match that of Jews, but not of Asians even though there is strong Asian DNA. Many LDS scholars had already known about these issues long before Southerton came out with his book...they aren't really problems to those of us fully familiar with the issue.

Message Edited! Persephone: Link removed and other suggestions not in consistency with our Posting Policy.

Does DNA Matter

Tidejwe, please take the time to understand the function of each Board you post in. This Board is meant for Non-LDS to understand a Topic. There is already a Topic about this in the LDS Boards at a level LDS Members can understand (see Factual's Message above) the references you are making. Check your Introduction Thread and read our Constructive Posting Policy.

Does DNA Matter Mormon Doctrine Studies

I was led through an apologists blog to this interesting little article:
https://experts.about.com/q/Latter-day-Sain...Book-Mormon.htm

Lots of people like to spout off about this thing as proof that the Book of Mormon is true, or that thing proving that it is false. The thing is, there are so many different variables in DNA research, that it is impossible to come to any absolutely firm conclusions on subjects such as this. DNA can, and easily does, identify an individual, if there is any sort of personal material (such as hair or skin) present. It is great for helping to prove guilt or innocence in crime.

But when you are talking about things that happened over 2600 years ago, declaring that people today are or aren't specifically related to people from over 2000 years ago, things get very murky.

What I get from the article on about.com is that there certainly IS genetic evidence linking ancient Jews to some of the aboriginal inhabitants of the Americas.