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Polygamy Vs Murder

Mark Hacking gets 6 years to life
https://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600139655,00.html

Tom Green gets 5 years to life
https://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/colum...03-turley_x.htm

What is similar about these cases, and what is different?

Well, let's start with the similarities.

Both men claimed to be Mormon - to believe in basic principles of morality, doctrines, and conduct, as presented in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, along with its sacred books and history.

Both men were tried in Utah - a very conservative state.

Now for the differences.

One of these men admitted to committing a capital crime. He murdered his wife and unborn child. His life was a complex puzzle of lies and deceptions. He managed to fool not only the entire state, with hundreds, even thousands of people searching for his wife, but had even fooled his own parents along with his wife, for years! He was a chronic liar and cheat. When he was found out, he murdered the one closest to him in cold blood, as she lay asleep.

The other man believed strongly in his religion. He believed so strongly, that he was willing to break the laws of the state in order to live what he believed to be a "higher" law, a law from God. He was practicing his religion, without harming a single person, anywhere. He was hard working, honest, very straight forward in his dealings with other people. He was supporting 4 wives and a host of children.

Tom Green, the polygamist, was blatantly persecuted by the state. The state prosecutor used several different charges, like a shotgun, hoping one of them would strike. He used "common law" to define Tom as a bigamist by saying that since he was living (cohabitating) with 4 women, he was married to them, despite the fact that he had never sought a marriage license for them. That didn't really work so well, but it did get the process going.

Then the prosecutor pulled the rabbit out of his hat. It seems that 17 years earlier, a young woman who had grown up in a family of polygamists (so she believed in the same principles) approached Tom Green and asked to become his wife. She discussed it with her parents, and they agreed to it. She was persistent, and Tom Green, going along with his religious beliefs, agreed to the arrangement.

Then he made a serious error in judgement. He married her too soon. Again, he didn't ask the state's permission for the marriage, but if he had waited 4 months, the state wouldn't have been able to get him on this charge. They were married 4 months before her 14th birthday.

17 years later, the state noticed, and decided to take action. After 17 years of married life, with several children in the home, with the mother very happy with all the decisions, the state charged and convicted Tom Green with the crime of child molestation (or some related charge). Then sentenced him to 5 years to life.

All because of his religious beliefs.

Now, yesterday, that same state of Utah, showed that the devoted family man, Tom Green, is the equivalent of the lying, murdering scum, Mark Hacking - at least in the eyes of the law.

And that is wrong.

Edited: Nighthawk on 7th Jun, 2005 - 11:50am

Murder Polygamy

I am a firm believer that the punishment should fit the crime. I don't so much think that the polygamist got to much, as the murderer got to little. Why on earth did they sentence the murderer to anything but life in prison?

However, while marrying more than one woman was not against, and even accepted by his beliefs and religion, it doesn't allot him the freedom to go against the law. Only marrying one woman was not against his religion either, he could have stayed married to just one and still followed his beliefs. Correct me if I'm wrong but his faith did not require the marriage to two or more wives.

Then there is the ideal that he wanted to marry a child. While it doesn't say his age, he "married" and had sex with a thirteen year old child. In this country, we call that pedophilia. A grown man that is attracted to a thirteen year old girl has something wrong with him and should have used his religion to hide it!

The amount of time after this took place makes it a ridiculous crime to prosecute in my opinion. Its nice to see that Utah is using tax dollars to break up a family and leave children fatherless. Putting him in jail does not address the basic reason we put people in jail, reform. What is this going to accomplish by jailing him? For five years, his children wont have a father and the state could end up supporting them. This is a ludacris idea to put him in jail. Was he wrong? Yes! Is this wrong? Yes! The state and Tom Green are wrong on this matter, completely wrong.

Polygamy Vs Murder History & Civil Business Politics

Oh, I don't disagree with you. However, if you read the USA today article about Tom Green, you will see some other aspects of his case. For example, if a guy wants to play around with 4 women, casually sleeping with them now and again as he moves around the country, even though he fathers children with all of them, the law just looks at him as an irresponsible man. Since he never makes a committment to any of them, the law has no force over him. If a man in Detroit lives with a woman for 5 years, has three children with her, then moves on to another, younger version, and has three children with her, nobody even takes notice.

But as soon as the guy determines to take responsibility for the women and the children, to make a personal covenant with them (outside of the state's laws and jurisdiction), then the state wants to jump in and prosecute him.

Yes, what he did was against the law. It is an unjust law. He isn't a pedophile. I know what a pedophile is, as I have known one, and have seen the results of his actions. Obviously, from the facts, Tom Green isn't, and wasn't a predator in any way. Again, the young woman made all the moves. Tom's crime was ONLY in his timing. If he had waited four months, Utah law couldn't have touched him. And, there is absolutely no HINT of any other predatory behaviour.

BTW, isn't there usually some sort of time limit to bring charges against a person? 17 years after the fact for anything except murder seems a little strange.

Back to the main topic though. The Deseret News article said that 6 years to life is the harshest sentence that the judge could apply to Mark Hacking! There apparently wasn't the evidence to bring him up for a "capital" crime (I always thought murder WAS a capital crime), which could have ended up with the death penalty or life without the possibility of parole.

So, my point is that there are some serious problems with the law in Utah. The family man could spend life in prison if the parole board doesn't like him, and the murderer could be out in 6 years if the parole board does like him.

Quite the comforting view, isn't it?

Murder Polygamy

Absolutely! I agree with you very much. Tom has taken care of all of his children faithfully for 17 years. He is fulfilling his duty both morally and beliefs wise. After 17 years, he shouldn't be taken to jail. I agree with you that the laws against polygamy in Utah are either wrong all together, or way to harsh. I also agree with the problem with giving the murder 6 to life! Are they trying to say that life with no possibility of parol is not an option in a capital murder one case in which he kills both his wife and child in cold blood?! Its disheartening to know that theoretically, a murderer could get out of jail before a father taking care of his children. The prosecutor for Utah should be ashamed of himself.

Murder Polygamy

I think 6 years to life is the life sentence in Utah. It means you are sentenced to life in prison, but like in many states, a life sentence does include a chance for parole. Apparently, in Utah that first opportunity comes at 6 years. I doubt many (if any) murderers are actually paroled at the 6 year mark.

Now, as far as Tom Green, are you sure there have been no allegations by any of his family members that he was abusive at any point? Did any of his wives collect welfare to support his children? I am not saying they did, but I am asking because I can't believe they prosecuted him solely for polygamy. Hundreds in Utah practice polygamy and are not prosecuted.

I do agree that a life sentence for polygamy is excessive. However, for child molestation, which is what he was found guilty of, it is not.

Incidently, I think they all should be prosecuted and jailed. So, for me, it isn't so much poor Tom Green as it is, why aren't the rest of them in jail. I think a penalty must be paid for breaking the law. Period. This has nothing to do with my personal position on polygamy. I simply believe in obeying the law or paying whatever penalty society has set for not obeying. If you don't like the law, work to get it changed or move to a country that allows the behavior...in my opinion only, of course.

Polygamy Vs Murder

I think most people will excuse some aspects of Polygamy between consenting adults, but the main problem with Polygamy practiced today (religious or otherwise) is that the marriages are no longer by consenting adults and this is where it gets ticklish. Nevertheless I do not see adults marrying in a polygamous relationship as the same weight as murder - definitely not because it is adults.

Polygamy Murder

JB:

Marriages and polygamous marriages in the old times were sometimes between adults and minors as well, why is it a big deal today? I am in total disagreement with these type of marriages but wonder why one was "accepted" as a cultural thing of the time and the second not?