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LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat

A Good Mormon Democrat?

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Democrat LDS? JB

Q. (Interviewer) Given the platform and positions taken by the Democratic Party, can you be a good church member and a Democrat?

A. (Gordon B. Hinckley) Yes...I don't know why you couldn't...We've got lots of Democrats in the church, lots of them, and they are good people. I don't worry about that too much.

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Should your beliefs affect your political decisions? 11/04/03 at 17:42:45 admin



Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever

Oh yeah, definetly. If you are against 'abortion' for instance you cannot support a party who thinks it's right. It will go against your beliefs.

I'm pretty amazed of the reply of Pres. Hinckley, specially when he says 'We've got lots of Democrats in the church, lots of them, and they are good people'. it seems like he would think that republicans are the only good people

Re: Democrat LDS? bink I think it's a hard thing to belong to one political party or another.  There are things in each party that go against religious beliefs.  If you believed in 99% of the things the democratic party does but there is one thing you don't believe in would you reject that party?  Some people wouldn't.  That doesn't make them bad people though.  You can still be a good church member and be a democrat or republican or whatever.  


Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever

Yes, but what if that one thing is a serious issue like abortion or death penalty?.


Re: Democrat LDS? bink

Personally I wouldn't support a party who did support abortion.  It is wrong.  But there are some good people who do.  It is all a matter of perspective and understanding and choosing which is the lesser evil.  I think abortion is extremely bad unless it is the case of a r-pe victim, but that is another topic.  

My point is that a person can be a good church member and be affiliated to a political.  


Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever

yes, but my point here is that sometimes political parties support things like abortion or legalization of drugs so no matter how 'good' person you are if you support that political party you're supporting the whole package including those bad things.  So how can a person feel totally honest or well about some issues that the Gospel says it's wrong?. This is like to have double standards.


Re: Democrat LDS? bink I don't really know the answer to that one.  It is more of a personal view I guess.  I don't like politics.   THere are lots of people doing things that are wrong or supporting things that are wrong, but that doesn't make them bad.  They just don't know better or have a testimony of certain things, but yes I agree that a church member ought to know better and not compromise their beliefs and standards, and support some things as terrible as abortion etc...


Re: Democrat LDS? JB

We may have to wonder, do Repulicans not do anything wrong that we should have to analyze the status of a Democrat?


Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever

I don't think is a matter of whether they do or don't do anything wrong. Both parties have people on them who maybe are great people but by the other side, both of them have people who are liars and dishonest. I don't think is a matter of which party but a matter of individuals.


Re: Democrat LDS? JB

LDS, what you said is true, but I think the point the Republican LDS try to make is why would you support a party that believes in principles that are so out of sync with Church doctrine? So really I am asking, is there anything out of sync with the Republican party's agenda? I know they are most often criticized as being warmongers, but I am no expert. I am hoping that an advocate of the Democrat party that is LDS can share some light on it.


Re: Democrat LDS? JB

Are you democrat and LDS too?

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Re: Democrat LDS? dsscheibe This is a topic that has gone around my singles list a few times, I'm very conservative and known as an Iron Rodder by the more liberal members.  I fail to see how anyone who is a member can support the Democrat party, the home of evil anti Christian activism in America.  It is this party that is for abortion, gay marriage, removing the 10 commandments from public, prayer, is anti family, I could go on and on.  You may say you are supporting the person you are voting for but they are part of the D. party.  If they don't support the above they should get out of the party if they truly feel it is wrong.  The Democrats are Socialist and that is what seems to draw members of the church to them, but Socialism is NOT any where close to the United Order and is a false copy of it created by Lucifer.  I support the Republicans because they are the best we have to choose from, I don't always agree with them but I virtually always disagree with the Democrats, the Libertarians are a bunch of nuts and the independents and moderates are cowards afraid to take a stand on one side or another.   As you can tell I am not one of the luke warm.


Re: Democrat LDS? melodilynn [quote author=dsscheibe link=board=oil;num=1045455707;start=8#11 date=08/19/03 at 22:57:51]You may say you are supporting the person you are voting for but they are part of the D. party. If they don't support the above they should get out of the party if they truly feel it is wrong. The Democrats are Socialist and that is what seems to draw members of the church to them, but Socialism is NOT any where close to the United Order and is a false copy of it created by Lucifer. I support the Republicans because they are the best we have to choose from, I don't always agree with them but I virtually always disagree with the Democrats, the Libertarians are a bunch of nuts and the independents and moderates are cowards afraid to take a stand on one side or another. [/quote]







Wow, this is a little harsh.  I know plenty of members who are perfectly wonderful members of the church.  The main reason to associate yourself with a party is because if you claim independant you can't vote to decide who the candidates will be.  







I claimed myself as independant for quite awhile because I didn't feel I could associate with either party.  Mostly because there were things in each party which I disagreed with.  I now claim myself as Republican, because, like you I find I agree more with their stance than I do Democrats... but to say that Democrats are Socialists is going a little far.  If it weren't for the Democrats we probably wouldn't have the welfare system, which isn't the greatest, I'll grant you, but it's far better than letting people starve because they can't support themselves.  There are also many other good points about Democrats.







Besides... the majority of the church are neither Republican or Democrat since now the majority of the church live outside the United States.  







I think rather than judging a person's status as a member based on their political affiliation it is much better to judge them based on their testimony of the gospel... or better yet... not to judge them at all.


Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever



dsscheibe, don't you think you're exaggerating a lil bit? I know you don't like Democrats and stuff but to call them all these things are a bit too much, after all, it's a political party!!!!! --> do you think Republicans are so much different? they may not on the issues you mentioned, but they still have lots of issues that nobody speaks about.


Re: Democrat LDS? jandjsalmon I think Presiden Hinckley says it best... there are LDS Democrats and they are good people. I believe we came to this earth to make our own choices... remember AGENCY... and some people who are really good LDS people disagree totally with the wars put on by Pres. Bush. I however, would be a Republican... but because other people have made different political choices does not mean they are bad LDS people.


Re: Democrat LDS? JB@Trinidad



[quote author=jandjsalmon link=board=oil;num=1045455707;start=8#14 date=08/21/03 at 23:34:03]I think Presiden Hinckley says it best... there are LDS Democrats and they are good people. [/quote]



Of course that is true, but one always has to stop and think, why would I want to support a political entity that supports abortion? Is it that they think the amount of good the party does is greater than the bad? I guess what I am saying is... yes, there are great LDS democrats, but why choose to be a democrat?

Offtopic but, Welcome to the forum jandjsalmon, look forward to seeing more of your posts

Re: Democrat LDS? SofiaTucker People would choose to be a Democrat because in order to vote in primaries and local elections you need to belong to a political party. I have relatives who I would never consider liberal who are registered Democrat because that is the way they get to vote in local elections.







I consider myself neither but switch back and forth as the situation warrants. I am currently Republican out of necessity to belong to one of the parties.







It is true Democrats support abortion but I personally find it hypocritical to oppose abortion but be okay with allowing the child to starve or suffer from lack of medical care after it is born. Republicans generally oppose social services







Republicans tend to be anti-environment.  IMO, I think it is unethical to overuse the world's resources - to destroy the environment so our great grandchildren will inherit a depleted and contaminated planet. And to do this so we can indulge in gluttony of various sorts in the current age.







Republicans favor the rich.  IMO,  it is unethical to overwork and underpay employees so stockholders and top level executives can earn exhorbitant amounts of money (not just rich-exhorbitant). Corporations wouldn't run if it weren't for the little guys at the bottom of the food chain.







Anyway, so many Americans don't consider themselves either party but are forced to adapt to the system. If someone wants to call me a coward for that - well, the party system was not part of the Constitution and I consider the parties' stranglehold on the election process undemocratic and frightening. 08/23/03 at 20:12:48 SofiaTucker

LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat Studies Doctrine Mormon

Re: Democrat LDS? GraceWatcher I used to vote for the republicans concervatives party legislators. I was told all christians had to. Based on one issue, which is prolife. If teh candidate is not prolife, then don't vote for him. Here is my senaro. I voted this way for 25 years. Not one coonservative has done a thing to stop abortion. It is still here. I come to learn that many conservative legislators is all talk. They may use christian lingo to catch one's attention. President Bush has quoted bible passsages. But actions speaks louder than words.







I vote democrat now. I may not agree with everything they stand for. But they get the job done. Latly all the conservatives haver done is raised tazes again, put us into an unjust war. Our men are still dieing. Besides if one were to read  Matthews 25 teaches "If you done unto the least of these you done it unto Jesus" and the cemocrats believe in taking care of the poor.







I do belive abortion is wrong. That is a matter that needs to be address by teh church and our homes. If our parents would be fathers and mother, rasing their kids in the ways of God, abortion would stop.





To me prolife is simple this: taking care of the ones who are living now, and the democrats are doing that now. I am sure my views of this will be tested. But this is how I feel.





Sincerely Yours Paul Michael Jones

Who told you that, a false prophet? There always needs to be a seperation of State and Religion. Your conscious be your guide.


Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever

I would like to know who said that to you....definetly was somebody who has some issues to deal with since Pres. Hinckley had said so many times that the Church is not Republican and that we should vote who we think is the best candidate. I think is wrong when people say that a good LDS member should be a Republican, I think is terrible to say that....a good LDS member is about keeping the commandments of God, what politics has to do with this? -->

Exactly, I'm not an American but I was telling this some time ago to an LDS guy who believes in Bush just because the guy mentions a couple of verses in the Bible, I don't believe in nobody just because they do...their actions must speak and in my opinion, the actions of Pres. Bush speak by itelf.


Thanks for sharing your views with us

Democrat Mormon Democrat LDS

Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

I must disagree with you here.  I have stopped identifying myself as Republican, and have never identified with the Democratic party.  I am not a member of any political party.

Generally, I tend to vote Republican, only because they aren't Democrats.

Libertarians have an awful lot of good points to consider.  Yes, their message is too strong on the 'repeal all the drug laws' idea.  But if you learn more of what they are saying, you will find that their general focus is on reducing government interference in our lives.  And, the 'war on drugs' has been one of the worst offenders of personal liberty in the history of the US.

There are a group of small, grassroots independant parties that you should look at.  The Constitutionalists and the American Independant Party are two good ones.  I think that these are very courageous, principled people.

The biggest problem with identifying with the Republicans OR the Democrats is that both embrace the Social Democratic principles that have ruined Europe.  That is, with only one or two exceptions, the Republican legislators at the national level espouse the same ideas as the Democrats, just in slightly smaller doses.  Witness the USA PATRIOT ACT, which was passed almost unanimously.  Consider the No Child Left Behind Act.  This is a European style socialist program.  How about the Campaign Reform Act?


All of these passed with strong Republican support, and were readily signed into law by the Republican president.

Back to the original thread.

I don't think that an honest, responsible Mormon can be a Democrat.  Socialism is extremely anti-Christian and anti-Mormon, and the Democratic party has been taken over by the socialists.

At the same time, an honest, responsible Mormon should think long and hard before becoming a Republican, as well.  Most people (myself included until recently) identify with the Republican party because the Democratic party has moved so far to the Left that the Republicans seem moderate.  They are both way to the Left of where the mainstream was just 30 years ago, let alone 100 years ago.

If more Mormons educated themselves on true, classical Liberal principles, on true libertarian (notice the small 'l' rather than the capital 'L') principles, and taught them to the public, perhaps we wouldn't have to make these distinctions.  Perhaps more of us would be able to make a difference in our communities, our states, and our nations.

BTW, I have lived in two socialist countries (besides the US) and one military dictatorship.




Nighthawk

Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

I am glad you vote.  Most people don't.

I disagree with your interpretation of the implementation of Matthew 25.  I truly don't believe that we are obeying the Lord when we authorize the State to steal from hardworking people to give to others.  It is the place of the churches and individuals to take care of the poor.  The Democrats do enact programs, but those programs are always wasteful, overbloated, and incredibly inefficient.  They are also directly in opposition to the Constitution of the United States.

Republicans have given the largest single tax break in history.  It doesn't overcome 12 years of tax hikes, but it is a start.

I am very ambivalent about our involvement in Iraq.  I don't see justification for it in the Constitution, but I am not sure yet whether or not it will produce good results in the end.  Although we do have people dieing there every day, they are in far less numbers than the Iraqi people have been murdered for the last two decades.  There is a chance, an opportunity, for liberty to take hold there.  I don't think it will, because Sharia will be implemented again.  But it is a chance, a better one than has been there ever before.

I can't label myself.  I think I believe in classical liberal principles, but don't really know enough about them yet.  I don't identify well with the modern conservative movement.  All I can do is speak of liberty.  Liberty of conscience, religious liberty, and liberty of property.  All of which are under constant, relentless attack from both the 'Left' and the 'Right' of the current government.  It is just that the Democrats are more blatant and unashamed of it.  They take pride in how they attack liberty.

Thus, my opposition to the Democrats in particular.

Nighthawk

Democrat Mormon Democrat LDS

Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever

Please, can you explain more about what you mean?. I don't think there is a 'personal liberty' really in using harmful things that kills our children.

Well, I think is also the responsibility of any political party in power to take care of the less fortunate with programs and plans that will help relief poverty. They're not there only to take out our money taxes and use it in whatever they please. I strongly believe that the Government should be concerned and help the poor, the Churches and individuals do it too of course but they don't take away the responsibilty from the government.


Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

I am not talking about resisting drug use.  I am talking about the organized "War On Drugs" that the government has undertaken.







Under this heading, extremely harsh laws have been passed, that are very unjust.  Attacks on personal liberty, and especially personal property have been the norm.







A 'mule' who transports a small load of drugs gets an automatic 20 to 25 year sentence.  The mule is normally a very poor person, who makes a mistake in who they trust.  Very frequently, it is a young woman, a single mother.  The distributor, who is quite wealthy from the drug profits, is able to hire a competent lawyer, and often pleas the sentence down to 3 to 5 years, and doesn't serve more than a year.







Which one should get the leniency?  Thousands of people begged Pres. Clinton to grant pardons to several young women in this situation.  Instead, he pardoned Marc Rich, a billionaire.







Personal property.  Under the harsh drug laws, if a police department or federal agency (such as the DEA) suspects that someone just *possesses* drugs, they can confiscate their property.  For example, there are several cases where Miss 'A' lends her car to a friend for the evening, just to run a few errands.  Mr. 'B' picks up a pound of marijuana to take to another friend's house.  He is stopped, and the police find the marijuana in the car.  So, the car is confiscated, and Miss 'A' can't do a thing about it.  She loses her car, and insurance doesn't cover it.  The police turn around and sell it, and keep the proceeds.







There are thousands of documented cases where drug runners, 'mules', and just casual users have had their property confiscated, with no recompense, AND THE PERPETRATOR COULDN'T BE PROSECUTED - FOR LACK OF EVIDENCE.  Yet their property is gone.







The 'War On Drugs' has also relaxed the requirements for law enforcement to get search and arrest warrants.  So, we have cases where druggie 'C' informs the police that he saw a drug deal go down at Mr. 'D's' house.  The police burst in at 1:00 AM, and literally scare Mr. 'D' to death.  After all, he is a 92-year-old man with a bad heart.  The law enforcement agency didn't bother to check their facts, because they aren't required to.







The results of the 'War On Drugs'?  More crime, more potent drugs, including marijuana, more profit to the drug runners, more addicts, more people in prison, more money to the law enforcement agencies.







The only thing there is less of is - liberty for the law-abiding.







Nighthawk




Re: Democrat LDS? binnampa There are a couple of things that we need to keep in mind. We are in the last days. Satan is has more power in this world than he has ever been allowed before.



This also gives rise to a modern day enclave of the Gadianton Robbers. These folks help each other get into power and oppress those who aren't of their group.







In the Doctrine and Covenants we are counselled to elect honorable men to represent us and to lead the country. Some states are a one party state. No one claiming to be a democrat has much of a chance to be elected from a 'traditionally' republican state. The same is true for republicans in 'traditionally democratic' states.







As I see it, there are few differences in ideologies between republicans and democrats (on a national level). They are just heading to their goal at different speeds. Neither of these groups are 100% pure. There will always be some give and take. Just as some folks lean more strongly toward justice (republican?) others may lean more toward mercy and compassion (democrat?). As long as we keep the Kingdom of God formost in our minds/hearts and elect men/women who have these same values, regardless of party affiliation, our own biases towards a political party becomes moot. 08/26/03 at 12:23:45 binnampa

LDS Democrat - Mormon Democrat

Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever

You're not being specific so I must ask what you mean by 'personal property' in this case? marijuana for personal use for instance?.

I understand, that's how the system works --> but I do think strong laws should be put for anybody who deals with drugs on any way.

I supposed that's the answer for the question I asked before. I heard of a guy who is from England that came to Trinidad for vacations, his trini friend helped him to get new suitcases --> then the police found drugs deeply hide in his suitcases...the guy is in jail now and there is no way he can prove it he didn't. But again, to prove that she was not using her car and stuff it is extremely hard. All I can say is a person need to be careful in who they lend their properties.



I understand your point nighthwalk but you have to agree with me that even though the system under the Democrats didn't work, the Republicans have not make any difference either. Actually this happens in a lot of social areas of the United States just is the case of Social Services and kids being separated it from their parents, although I strongly believe any kid who is under abuse should be separated from their parents, it must exist a legitime reason to do it...but I heard so many cases that there is not a reason. I don't know what to believe really.


Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

I disagree.  If a person is innocent until proven guilty, as is required in the US, then their property should have the same protection.  Actually, under the Constitution, it does.  These laws are patently unconsitutional, unjust, and wrong.



I personally know a man whose house was raided because an old friend from High School was visiting.  The police took all of his (legal) weapons, a couple of rifles and a shotgun.  They stuck a gun in the face of his 17-year-old son and his girlfriend who were sitting in a car in the driveway talking.  They terrorized his younger son.



What did they find?  Two 'roaches', with an amount of marijuana that was too small to measure.  They couldn't even come up with enough evidence to charge him.


But they kept his property.



The United States if founded on property rights.  The Constitution doesn't bestow rights, it is written to protect them.  These drug laws destroy them.

Absolutely.  That is one reason I don't identify myself as either.  I am very libertarian, and get more so each day.  I am extremely disappointed with the direction that the Republicans have taken in the last two years, regarding liberty.  But it is still less draconian than what the Democrats keep trying to do.

Nighthawk

LDS Democrat Mormon Democrat

Re: Democrat LDS? SofiaTucker [quote author=Nighthawk

Absolutely. That is one reason I don't identify myself as either. I am very libertarian, and get more so each day. I am extremely disappointed with the direction that the Republicans have taken in the last two years, regarding liberty. But it is still less draconian than what the Democrats keep trying to do.


Nighthawk

[/quote]


You've shared some good insights.  I have to say I have become more curious about Libertarianism in the last cuople of years as I become more disillusioned with our government.


One point, it's not just drugs that wreck havoc with property laws.  I read of one woman (family) who lost her only means of transportation because the family car was confiscated when her husband was arrested for picking up a prostitute - she couldn't get it back.

[quote]Posted by: LDS_forever




Well, I think is also the responsibility of any political party in power to take care of the less fortunate with programs and plans that will help relief poverty. They're not there only to take out our money taxes and use it in whatever they please. I strongly believe that the Government should be concerned and help the poor, the Churches and individuals do it too of course but they don't take away the responsibilty from the government[/quote]



Unfortunately most of our programs are not working; in some cases they've institutionalized poverty.  I think many charitable groups are actually better at assisting people to get back on their feet.  The truth is - in the US - the government simply takes money from some people and gives it to others.  I also believe that is wrong.  I also believe it is unconstitutional.  Morally, I believe I personally have an obligation to help the less fortunate but I would like to have the choice how to spend that money and give it to programs that actually work.  



The area of social services is a really complex issue and an incredibly frustrating one - because the true victims are the little children who are being failed (and lost) by worthless, ineffective programs.  I can't have much respect for a party that means well (or says it does) but doesn't see that it's money is spent effectively.


Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

[quote]I have to say I have become more curious about Libertarianism in the last cuople of years as I become more disillusioned with our government.[/quote]

I generally avoid "Libertarianism" (capital L) which is a political party.  I try to study "libertarianism" (lower case) which is a political philosophy.  It focuses on protecting and restoring liberty.  I find the Ludwig von Mises Institute to be a good place to start to learn about the economics of liberty.

I agree with you about the ineffectiveness of government programs, especially because I have participated in them.  I learned that they are thrilled to provide services to people, but those services come with a price.

You must live the way they tell you to, make choices that they tell you to, and submit to their (frequently illogical) rules.  There are definitely strings attached.


Nighthawk




Re: Democrat LDS? LDS_forever

Great information. I was supposed to search more about it but I didn't have the chance. You all are Americans so I know you may know your Constitution better than I do . What's the solution about the property issues then? 08/26/03 at 23:25:32 LDS_forever


Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

Ultimately, the solution will be a full restoration of Constitutional principles.  This won't happen, IMO, until after the US is overthrown from outside forces, and the political Kingdom of God is restored.


Nighthawk

LDS Democrat Mormon Democrat Mormon Doctrine Studies

Re: Democrat LDS? JB@Trinidad



Has there been a democrat President in the US that has done better that his Republican counterpart from an LDS standpoint?


Re: Democrat LDS? Nighthawk

I don't know of any.  John F. Kennedy was moving in the right direction on a few issues, which is probably ultimately why he was killed.  However, he was definitely moving in the wrong direction on a lot of other issues.







All the other Democrat presidents and candidates of the last four decades have been completely opposite Church teachings on all social issues.







Nighthawk




Re: Democrat LDS? JB@Trinidad



So then one has to wonder why members would vote for a party that has such opinions that are in opposition to the Church's teachings? Then again, I guess there has to be some sort of 'checks and balances' otherwise the Republicans would also get out of control?


Re: Democrat LDS? humphrey Well, i think you can be a Democrat and a good church member. It is not as simple as it looks like - you can't say that Democrats support abortion and Republicans don't support it.



In addition, there are not only US members in the Church. I am from Europe, and we have more than 2 relevant political parties. I am member of Christian democratic union, and in our program there are some things which are supported by Democrats in US and some things which are supported by Republicans.



On the other hand, in Utah there are some functions of welfare state held and fulfiled by Church and people don't know that in other states it is a litlle bit different.


Re: Democrat LDS? JB@Trinidad



Humphrey, thanks for your thoughts. So you are saying that it is really up to each member to decide which party offers the best? If so, then I would ask, the best for who, personal or national?


Re: Democrat LDS? Able There are individuals in the Democrat Party that hold dear to LDS principles. By declaring to be a Democrat or Republican may have more to do about getting elected more that an individual voting record.