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Behold His Face

Behold His Face

In 2 Nephi 9:38 we learn...

Comment: We are told in many places that a man in his sins cannot behold the face of God or withstand his presence.

Question: How can one behold the face of God while sinful?

Face Behold

We were talking about this tonight and we have to do some other checking on it, but off the top of our heads we were wondering if it is talking about being alive and not being able to see God?

The other thing we were thinking about was that after death, at the judgement when we are judged will we see God then? Or will it only be Jesus Christ? If, God was there, then those being judged that are not Celestial would therefore be shut out of His presence again and remain in their sins. Not sure if that came across how we were thinking, but at any point, I am going to go and see if I can read some on it.

Behold His Face Studies Doctrine Mormon

Okay, I'm not all that great at saying what I am trying to say, but here goes a try... If someone dies in their sins, that is they die without having fully repented they will go to paradise or spirit prison. They will be in the presence of God (or as was said, this could be Jesus Christ - He is the God of this world.), that person will still need to go through the repentance process if they are to progress to celestial glory. We are told that process is much more difficult after death than it is on this earth. It is possible, but more difficult without our human bodies. They will still have to pay the price for their sins. I would not want to have to face God without having repented for my sins. Seems like I have some work to do.

Face Behold

My question is if we cannot enter in god's presence in sin, then how do we ever come to him? You cannot come to his presence pure and clean of sin. We have to come to him in order to be cleansed. I am suspicious of such ideas. Jesus was in the presence of sinners his whole ministry. As Jesus says you see me do what that father does, then if Jesus is in the presence of sinners then Father would be as well. I just do not see God as a being that hides and separates himself from sin because it is offensive to him. He is in the redeeming business and that takes working with sin. That is my logic anyways.
alskann if one could pay for there sins at some point in the eternities and be clean then why then do we need an atonement? Would that make Christ atonement not infinite as Jacob describes? Would he not be the savior of all mankind? I guess my take is that we can see God's face and we should while in our sins because that it what cleanses us.

Face Behold

I do not believe it is Christ who keeps us away from his presence if we are sinners. I believe we do it to ourselves. We do not feel worthy or whatever. It is usually human nature to feel uncomfortable and out of place in surroundings to which we are unprepared. It is one thing that keeps people from coming back to church after they have fallen away.
In order for us to feel comfortable in his presence we have to prepare ourselves. We are incapable of reaching that state without the atonement. We, as mortal beings, can only do so much - and that is not enough. But we shouldn't beat ourselves up over this because after we have done all we can do He will pick up the slack. He has promised.
As far as being in his actual presence, He loves us so much that His love is all consuming. I experienced a very small glimpse of this in the temple and can only imagine the full effect of being in His loving presence. If we have not prepared ourselves spiritually we could not withstand it. Our mortal being needs spiritual preparation to be able to tolerate his presence for any length of time. The brother of Jared was a righteous and spiritually prepared man and yet just seeing the finger of God was almost more than he could bear.

Behold His Face

I am uncertain why you use the word withstand. It is just not you I have heard other use that term as well. What is there to withstand in god's presence? I have always felt that to come in God's presence is a form of surrender not a resistance or withstanding?

I am not sure I understand the LDS concept of feeling comfortable in God's presence. Who would not feel comfortable in the presence of love? Even a sinner would feel comfortable in love. Is not love the ultimate comfort? Again in this logic to get comfortable means that you have to have accepted Christ and become clean. However to become clean you have to come in his presence unclean. This to me sound circular in common LDS thought. How can I feel comfortable in his presence unless I am clean, but yet I have to feel comfortable or enter his presence in order to become clean?

Behold Face

Isiah 53:

The best explanation I can think of is one I used for my teenage class. If you imagine a very formal place and everyone is all dressed to the max and only the best has been used for this special night. Your running a little late and you come in the room--wearing blue jeans with holes in the knees and a dirty, stained Tshirt. You would feel a little out of place and uncomfortable.!

It isn't the fact that the people don't love you (God) they are just sad you won't be able to stay until you go home and change into the proper attire (preparation) so that you would feel more comfortable.

Does that example make any sense?

Isiah53:

We cannot enter into His presence on our own merits. Jesus Christ is our Savior and Mediator. No matter how much we do it will never be enough to be in the Presence of God--but we come and do what we are able --then Christ "mediates" for us and asks the Father on our behalf to be accepted. At that point, we can enter in His presence.

Behold Face Mormon Doctrine Studies

If I am late and coming to a family function at my family house, then no I would not feel out of place. How I am dressed would not matter to me. I think that analogy is apples to oranges. I do not think the kingdom of god is like a formal dinner where appearances matter. I think of it being a family home coming with my parents so appearances would not matter. I think of the story of the prodigal son where he came home dressed like a slave, broke and worn, and being greeted by a father even before the son repented. That is how our Father feels towards us, no matter what position we find ourselves in.
Does that make sense?