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Daishain's 5e D&D Rules, Q&A, And Support - Page 889

Yeah, this is not going to be easy to overcome for the PCs. Even though Cratol left, without explanation or reasons why, I can't see an easy way for the character to rejoin the party without issues having to be dealt with solidly. Lawrance, being the security-minded (Nee paranoid) manager of the castle has spent many spell-cycles arming and armouring the place. Lots of spells scattered around to make any invader's life horribly short that Poppo has been reinforcing (Sorry, ChristianD, for using him so!) while the PCs have been out saving the Realms. His support of flying off randomly is tiny at this stage. We need a better reason and/or proof of need to pull us off course, no matter how short.
Regarding loner characters - yes, they are troublesome, especially when they are terribly taciturn, but even a loner with a solid reason to be with an adventurer group will have to be played as an involved party. The loner HAS to have a over riding reason for coming out of their hermitage and into the world, and that should be obvious to the other PCs, so we can understand it. Side quests are not meant to be more involved than the main one, and should remain short and sweet.

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Cratol has learned a lot in the time he has been away. And yes he did a side quest. The healing he has requested would take more than just a healer it would take a wizard too but you are not aware of that as of yet. 25 word limit is hard at times. Is he a loner yes he is of sorts but he was never there when Velon said there was going to be a meeting and when he did come in no one said anything about a meeting thus he did not know. Character knowledge and player knowledge is tricky at times.

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A perfect example of this was a certain shadow sorcerer that joined us in taking the skycastle. He was a loner character. The player asked Daishaim to give him a reason to stay with the group. It's not up to the Dungeon Master. It's up to the player to make a pc that wants to be with the others.

I don't know how we overcome this. I don't see there being much trust at this point. He bolted on them in their time of need. Talk to us KN. Maybe we can figure something out. I don't want you out of the campaign. Just not sure if it is possible to have Cratol rejoin it at this point.

Edited: Kyrroeth on 24th Aug, 2018 - 5:20pm

Page 889 Support QampA Rules Dragons and Dungeons e Daishains

Oh I am quite aware there will be some trust issues as there were trust issues with him before as he was feeling it from some. While nothing was said right to him he could see some of the side glances towards him and where his alligence was at. Yes he still wishes to be part of the Sliver Blaze and he is hoping that you will come to Everlund. But like the message said he is not going to demand it as he is not that type of a person. He has learned a bit doing this time away.

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We might simply just not be on the same page regarding the meetings, KN, which we might be able to fix.

To me, I posted "Velon waits until everyone is at dinner to talk to the group… "And you posted "Cratol was not there". To me that seems like the player, not the PC, going out of their way to be stubborn and refuse to ever have Cratol talk to the party. To me, my condition was very open ended such that Velon would wait quite a long time through dinner and beyond for everyone to show up. If you are forcing me to post "Velon asks Captain Callahan to send a guard to go find Cratol so he can talk to the group" every time, then wait for the Dungeon Master to respond to that, and then wait to see if you have Cratol show up or not, you are asking that much more work from me and the Dungeon Master. As I've said before on such things, I think I already post plenty and Daishain already puts enough effort into the game without a player forcing us to go that much further just to RP "Velon talks to the party." Saying something to the party should be a very simple task that takes one post from me and no Dungeon Master involvement. What is the purpose of saying that Cratol avoids meetings at all costs?

Furthermore, other issues need to be addressed. People can do what they want in combat, not every turn has to be as optimized for damage or whatever as possible, but Cratol has been a real liability at times. In the white dragon fight, he went in and kept getting wrecked by the dragon and thus demanded all of the healing because people would feel bad letting him die. It was just a ping pong game of Cratol being knocked to zero, demanding healing, being knocked to zero, demanding healing, and on and on. This led to Poljen going down after not receiving any healing. If you recall, Poljen was quite upset about this. He was also very upset when Cratol wanted to 'cut the throats' of one of the sleeping fire giants, and then just whacked the sleeping one in the head. Why fight two at once when you can burn one down? Remember, 3 PC's almost died there, others had to show up at the last second to heal them up from zero.
There are so many examples of Cratol being trouble. In other types of games, players that run in and get wrecked or call out for healing when they are down to 99 out of 100 hit points instead of taking at least some accountability for their own surivival are notoriously bothersome to the group. There are many ways to try to keep one's character alive. For a monk, it would probably be their mobility, Patient Defense, or using ranged attacks such as a bow. Any high Dexterity character should be very good with a bow.

Because of this type of thing, Velon thinks the kid is a liability and has a real problem with him running wild doing whatever he wants when the rest of the team has at least tried to have a general plan. It is going to take a lot to get Velon to put everyone else at risk by allowing Cratol to come back and monkey around some more. That being said, one thing you have going for you is Lia, as Velon is likely to be heavily influenced by her and she has just posted that she has at least some compulsion to help Cratol out. This would be a good moment for us to figure this out here in the Q&A and I can just have Velon say "Ok fine" begrudgingly in Main and we move on from there.

Edited: Cinder on 24th Aug, 2018 - 5:44pm

Daishain's 5e D&D Rules, Q&A, And Support

Well as for combat As a monk I have no real range weapons I do more damage in melee combat than I do in ranged combat A lot more. Me hitting three to four times in one round to where I did more than 100 points damge to the white dragon. I was not asking for healing and I was trying to distract the dragon from attacking those with range. I was going by the plan to have the melee people get in there and attack along with Poljen. Granted he at times does a bit more damage than I do but together the two of us can do a lot of damage quickly. Thus giving the others advantage on their attack rolls. yes working on the communication is something that can work out and back then Cratol was on a different sleep eat cycle than the others maybe I did not make that clear enough so when you were waiting for everyone to show up he could have been sleeping or coming in way later. Like at times in the dawn light he was out on the battlements doing his workout/meditating.
I understand that some may be upset at him and he gets that. Some may want to smack him around some he gets that too. One thing he does not and will not do is attack those he feels are his friends. Believe it or not but he stills feels he has a place at the castle.

Daishain's 5e D&D Rules Q&A Support - Page 889

I'm sorry, but "He was on a different sleep cycle" reminds me of that "Pegawolf" guy in the other game on here that keeps insisting he can't participate because he has to go hunt or he'll die or something. It is an effort by the player to NOT participate in the game. Why? Lia just said the same thing about the sorcerer PC. No one else should have to provide the PC with a reason to participate other than the player.

The battle thing is also tough to hear. Yes, all characters can do more damage if they ignore all other abilities and aspects of the game beyond just hitting stuff as much as possible. A living Cratol can do more damage in 10 rounds at 2 attacks per than in 4 rounds with 4 attacks and then dying. By choosing the latter, you are forcing others to spend spell slots, healing points, actions, etc. To keep you up. The cost of your extra strikes is not a ki point, it is a ki point plus other people's resources. There is A LOT more to Dungeons & Dragons than just hitting stuff with D20 rolls.

You very much did indeed ask for healing, multiple times. I can find them if you like, starting with page 608 of the Q&A.

Note the "Again". You said it yourself. Cratol the ping-pong star. Didn't he have like 4 levels of exhaustion? No one else even got close.

Well unfortunately the insistence that Cratol did nothing wrong and is not a liability is not really making me want to stretch what Velon would do for out of character reasons, but I'm still willing to work on it. Hey, Velon is just one character and, unless he can influence the others, it may not matter what I think.

Edit: Note that Velon does WAY more damage in melee than at range, but he still has his cruddy firebolt because all 5e characters should have a ranged attack for situational things.

Edited: Cinder on 24th Aug, 2018 - 6:07pm

Daishain's 5e D&D Rules Q&A Support D&D / Pathfinder Archive - Page 889

When asked Via the scrying Cratol will respond that the commander we followed to Greenest was Sir Onthar. I am the one who paid to have the message sent. I am currently under no duress but if Lia is able to I need a healer and a wizard if you have the time. If not I can meet you elsewhere.