Related Information to Daishain's 5e D&D Rules, Q&A, And Support

Daishain's 5e D&D Rules, Q&A, And Support - Page 890

I have to side with Cinder on this. KN made his choices and will have to live with them. And I will go one step further. I totally get Cinder's sarcastic remarks about rage quitting and being rewarded with a side quest. I feel in complete agreement with the sentiment. At an absolute minimum, Cratol would have to really sell the group on why he should be allowed back in (Let alone welcomed back), especially after his attempt to leave with the castle on some personal whim. I'm not sure the entire story has been fully explained to the rest of the Silver Blaze. So distrust and anger are not just understandable to me, but practically expected. More so than even when the drow joined the team. Thomas had to keep being reminded he chose a drow, and we would be very slow to trust her. Cratol for all intents and purposes was trying to abandon the team with no explanation, and taking their most valuable asset as well.

Honestly, as a table-top GM, on those rare occasions where a player is as disruptive as KN has been of late, I first try a sidebar conversation with the player. The next time, I kick them. Daishain, I think you've given KN more than enough rope. If I were GM I would need a lot of convincing to allow the player back (Let alone the character Cratol). I am sure you are privy to much more information than we are so you may have accepted him back. But how about convincing the rest of us players?

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Let me be clear, I am not going to force you guys to take Cratol back. I will ask you to hear him out, but convincing you to take him back as a player or character is his task I am afraid.

I will say this, Kntoran has been playing Cratol as he thinks reasonable based upon the character's personality. That personality has been changing of late, and Cratol has in character reasons to change his behavior. There have also been some misunderstandings that have hopefully been cleared up at this point. Some things at least have changed.

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I’m sorry Daishain, but I’m still confused.

First, “I’m just doing what my character would do guys” is the official slogan for bad Dungeons & Dragons participants who can’t justify not getting along with the group and acting erratically in any other reasonable way. Watch any video or read any article about disruptive players and that is the A#1 excuse.

You are asking that we hear him out, so even I have said I would. I haven’t heard much since then other than something about a sleep cycle (Really?) and justification mentioning damage totals (You don’t track damage in Dungeons & Dragons for many reasons) as to why Cratol will never do anything but run in and mindlessly hit stuff with a stick. How does doing nothing but try to justify behavior that just about everyone in the group seems to take issue with translate into this ‘change’ you are referring to? I think I can say ‘we’ do not see a drop of this change.

You have asked KN to talk to us, but again, only you have described any change. Where is KN? I’ve seen two in character posts since mid day but no further discussion here.

What misunderstandings? Saying Cratol didn’t know the group was talking about business at dinner? Do you REALLY think when I say “Velon waits for EVERYONE to come get food before speaking to the party” and then KN posts “Cratol still not there” He is “misunderstanding” that Velon wanted to talk to everyone, or he’s just going out of his way to be a pain in the ass? Should we take a poll on that one?

I’m sorry, earlier today I was quite willing to talk to KN here and then adjust Velon’s response in game, but we have seen little from KN and none of this change you mention, only doubling down from the player despite words from Perry, Lawrance, Lia, Paul and myself saying this character, or at least this type of character, does not work. (Apologies if any of those names are wrong and someone didn’t quite say that, but I believe that’s close.).

Edit: In short, where is the “hey guys, I think I can have Cratol engage with the party more” and “hey guys, I think I can have Cratol be a bit more tactical and work with the group in combat/dungeon situations and be less of a liability” from the player? That would probably appease most to some degree.

Edited: Cinder on 25th Aug, 2018 - 3:44am

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As previously stated, I agree with Cinder. The team seems to be in agreement that our characters will be willing to go see Cratol, and even hear him out. But we will definitely need some good in-character explanations for any number of incidents to agree to take him back.

You know, I keep thinking about starting a thread titled something like, "Where Is The Line Between Being In-Character And Being A Dick?" I also have seen lots of players doing what I sometimes call 'glory-hounding,' or 'spotlight-hogging.' They go off and do stuff on their own, ostensibly because their character is a loner, but it boils down to they want to go do stuff on their own since it gets them a lot of solo time, being the hero of their own little mission, and maybe even some cool loot that others don't know about. I have told people that if that's what they want, they should play a computer Role-playing Game, where they are the star of the story. What it does is frustrate the people who are focused on the group working together and accomplishing stuff as a team.

When someone is first getting into gaming I am more than willing to make allowances. I know I did that myself once or twice back when I started gaming in college, but quickly learned that when others did it, it drove me nuts. So I quickly stopped doing it. KN has more than enough experience to be well aware of what he is doing.

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Sorry for not posting more but I do have alife out in the real world and I do not sit at a computer all day. I said I would be willing to let Cratol explain things but if you have made your mind up since I have not posted a lot then so be it.

I am not trying to be a ass about this and yes I do have a lot of Dungeons & Dragons experience. But do not take my lack of posting as a sign that Cratol is not willing to talk.

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The Protector. says...

So what is the bottom line then are we all going to Everland, to meet up with Cratol?
I'm hearing a lot of what's happened in the past here, and having witnessed only part of the issues. I've already heard Cinder, mention that the flying castle, isn't meant to be an "Uber service," for side quests.

To that I agree, if Tazskan, or anyone were to head off on a side quest, a portal, or ship should suffice, and be a better alternative.

Even then the side quest should be minor, compared to the main quest.
However, it appears that most players here still have doubts, and concerns with KN coming back into the fold, as Cratol. While I do agree with some of the players complaints. My character also hasn't had much interraction either with Cratol. For that reason, I cannot arrive at a fully informed decision.

Rather than continue with this impasse, is it possible to give him another chance? Particularly if KN would be able to deal with some issues, in character? Maybe, we can think of some practical "In character" ways, that can be shown? I will also admit here, that I have made shall I say, some mistakes, with Dungeons & Dragons rules. To which I intend to learn from, and move forward.

However, Tazskan will go with the majority, on how you want to deal, or meet with Cratol. Where it concerns matters of the cult of Tiamat, Tazskan, will put first priority in eliminating that. For that very reason, that, is why I had Tazskan catch up quickly, to help with engaging the green dragon Chuth. As opposed to going off on a family errand or side quest.

Daishain's 5e D&D Rules Q&A Support - Page 890

Ok, I was under the impression that we were going to hash this out here in Q&A since the Dungeon Master said “get in here and fix this” but I guess we are doing it in character. We’ve shared some perspectives but I don’t think we’ve made any progress here, so I suppose I will reluctantly do it in character if you prefer. I do think it is a mistake though, as you don’t typically fix out of character issues with a disruptive player by telling them to role play it. You have to pull the player aside as Paul said and deal with it straight on. I’ll try the in character approach only because the Dungeon Master seems to be asking us to.

I don’t expect you to be at a computer all day KN, but you had posted in character related stuff twice over a number of hours. To me that signaled you intended to just keep playing and not actually address the issues here as the Dungeon Master asked. Thus far here you have mostly said there is no issue, only a couple of “misunderstandings” despite strong words from several players. The Dungeon Master has promised change on your behalf, which is more than you have shown us, despite that he said YOU need to work it out with us. I fear doing it in character is going to be an attempt to keep playing without really addressing the true issues, but here we go…

Please assume Velon reluctantly agrees to go and suggests they make it VERY brief, 1-2 hours, and everyone can get their shopping done. I don’t have time to post further.

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I would have rather hashed it out in this thread also. It isn't going to be pleasant dealing with it in character. Cratol will be viewed as a traitor and untrustworthy. It's not going to be a fun reunion. Anyways here we go I suppose.