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Any Thoughts On Death Bed Repentence - Page 2

When one is on the path they could be considered "saved". But Salvation is only assured as long as we are headed that way. Once we turn away from God or from the straight and narrow, so often mentioned in the scriptures, our saved condition can change. So Lamoni's wife was in fact saved as she had received a witness that her path was the one that God had chosen for her. That is why I said Death Bed Repentance is only possible if we remain faithful after we die, as that is only a continuation of this life, and not a separate existence.

Amonhi

No, Christ's Baptism was not a dead work, but rather a necessary ordinance for salvation and exaltation in the Kingdom of God. As quoted man must be born of the Spirit and Water to enter the Kingdom of God.

The Law of Moses was a preparatory law, but was not a dead work when it was instituted, until it was corrupted by man or later fulfilled by the higher law. Even portions of the Law of Moses must once again be brought back when the sons of Levi make an offering in the Temple as prophesied. Every Law has its time and its place, some being preparatory (the Law of Moses) and some of a more permanent nature such as Baptism and the New and Everlasting Covenants. I am sure that there are ordinances that we do not yet understand (such as the Ordinance of Resurrection) that are also necessary to our eternal salvation.

Salvation does not come by the Law alone, but must be coupled with the Holy spirit of Promise. And as mentioned , in this life it is expedient to keep the Law which the Lord has given his people. At this time we may be living an inferior law to that which may be instituted in the Future, but if we cannot keep this lower law then how can we expect to keep the higher laws that are to come.

My personal definition of a dead work: One that is not accompanied by a broken heart and a contrite spirit and a work or ordinance that is not performed with the right keys and authority, all which were true for the Jews living at Christ's time.

As to the Question at hand, Death bed repentance is possible, but it is not safe to postpone our repentance until then, as many of us may die somewhere else then a bed (in a car, fatal accidents, Heart attack) or will not be fully aware of our own demise ( I worked in a nursing home for four years and many people were comatose the last years of their life.)

Repentence Bed Death Thoughts Any

Baptism is part of the law of Moses which is the lower law and the preparatory gospel and not permanent, see below:

Notice that Even though Moses was taken, the law given by Moses "continued". This was known as the law of Moses which Christ fulfilled. It included baptism, repentance, the remission of sins and the carnal commandments. Then it says that "the Lord in His wrath caused (these) to continue". Today, the Lord in His wrath has once again caused these things to continue among us. But what does he say about this law of Moses?

Notice here that again the Lord reiterates:
1) Baptism is part of the Law of Moses,
2) We do not enter in at the straight gate by the law of Moses. (I think few people would argue that the Law of Moses provides salvation or life in any form, but rather its ordinances are symbols pointing to life and salvation.)
3) Dead works don't save us either, just as the Law of Moses doesn't save us.

What is your definition of a dead work?

Excellent! What if the Holy spirit of promise was given without the ordinance? Would the law make the promise of no effect?

You qualified your statement with "this life" can the law be removed before the end of "this life"?

Continuing to read where you left off in Mosiah, you will find that this lower law was given because:
1) The people were very stiffnecked - Mosiah 13:29
2) The Law for the stiffnecked people consisted was a "law of performances and ordinances" - Mosiah 13:30
3) The law was to keep them in remembrance of God- Mosiah 13:30 (Sounds like the sacrament which is indeed part of the lower law of Moses.)
4) "All these things were types of things to come." - Mosiah 13:31
5) The people didn't understand the law, because of their hard hearts. They didn't understand that man could not be saved except through the redemption of God. - Mosiah 13:32 Can't be saved by the law of Moses nor by your dead works like D&C 22 states.
Are you saying that we as modern LDS meet the criteria listed above such that we require the lower law as spelled out?

This is key to understand. Any time someone is governing you, you are living the lower law. Any time someone says, thou shalt... They are saying you are not capable of governing yourself. Laws are given because they are needed. If people governed themselves by LOVE, then no laws would be needed. So we cannot say that we have been given a lower law today and if we live it well we will be given a higher law, and a higher law... You either are governed by others = lower law. Or, you govern yourself = higher law. Notice the lower law is written in cold hard unbending stone. The higher law is always written on the heart. (Heart = love and compassion inside each person, warm, feeling, giving and amendable.)

No man or God can give you the higher law. Any time a law is "given" it is a lower law. In the lower law, there are laws that point more clearly toward the goal of love than others, but they are all types of what is to come.

This being the case, a person can receive love on their death bed and have the change of heart required to live the higher law, and be saved, without baptism. And they may even be baptized with fire and know it not.

In this scripture we are told that the criteria for the blessing is the broken heart and the contrite spirit. The blessing is the baptism with Fire and the Holy Ghost. Notice now the example given which clearly shows that at the very moment of their conversion, (In this case a death bed repentance), they were baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost. At the time of their conversion was not after a water baptism or the laying on of hands, but the moment they were converted. I think many missionaries have seen that. And the Holy Ghost hangs around as long as they remain worthy... Just as it did for Christ prior to baptism.) Knew it not because there was no ordinance done, but they received the gift and the blessings of the gift.

I liked your definition of dead work. I disagree in part, but it is well founded.

I agree we should not postpone repentance for the lost enjoyment of life and misery we cause ourselves and others, but you bring up an interesting point in that we often die quickly, some even supposedly instantly. With no time to repent. To this I would ask about near death or post death repentance. Death, also being an ordinance has brought many to Christ and repentance. Traumatic events often do.
Many people come to Christ because a friend or family member died, imagine how many come to Christ because they died! . What of those who do not repent before dieing?

Edited: Amonhi on 21st Aug, 2008 - 11:21pm

Any Thoughts On Death Bed Repentence Studies Doctrine Mormon

My understanding of this is that death bed repentance is a start, but rather ineffective.

Repentance is a tool used in our probation period to perfect our souls. And we need time to do this. That is why it is important to not waste our time in probation.

It is a constant process that requires constant attention and repentance. It takes time to become proficient at following the promptings of the holy spirit.

I believe that one can make many changes over a short period of time, but it is a painful process.

Alma was in hell for 3 days and was completely changed afterward. I dought that many people could handle this.

The idea is to push out the natural man as much as possible before death. Most of this cleansing, as everyone knows, is done through the atonement. If you die with a dark soul then I believe that darkness will claim you.

Constantine (Roman emperor) did all kinds of horrible things in his life and right before he died he was baptised so that he could go to heaven. I don't believe he made it. He is probably still in spirit prison.

A dark soul really imprisons himself with his lack of understanding. And a dark soul will pursue evil just as they did in life.

Page 2 Repentence Bed Death Thoughts Any

An interesting discussion, which I enjoy reading.

I am interested to know what do you all think of these verses:

Also I am interested of your opinion about the need of a righteous person to be baptized? -- to fulfill all righteousness -- when is a person having that time at the glance of death?

Is he really saved if not in the presence of the Father?

Message Edited... Persephone: Please use the Quote Tags here. When you do not use these tags source material that is not your own may appear to be yours when it is not. See our Constructive Posting Policy.

Repentence Bed Death Thoughts Any

In Alma it says not to procastrinate the day of our repentance.

Edited: Lephisto on 13th Sep, 2008 - 7:35am

Any Thoughts On Death Bed Repentence

Indeed, not to procrastinate our repentance until the last minute.

Abraham 3:25

Says one interesting thing about the repentance process for me.

When are we to prove that we will do all things that the Lord God will ask of us? No time at the glance of death.

I was thinking of that "phenomena" when an article by Hugh Nibley cot my attention to what is said here:

Abraham 4

This way through the chapter, even for the plants and the animals.

Very interesting for me, because it made me wonder about our purpose in life.

We are to prove to the Lord God that we will obey him in thoughts, deeds and actions.

Any Thoughts Death Bed Repentence - Page 2

You can't fool Heavenly Father, its either your repentance is sincere or it isn't. As someone said before you can't make restitution on many things you've done wrong while siting in bed either.

Any Thoughts Death Bed Repentence Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

Name: Gordon

Comments: I think there is a form of death bed repentance which may save a person from an eternity of hell, but not exalt him. The best example that I can think of, is when Jesus Christ tell one of the thiefs on the cross next to him, that this day he (thief) would be in paradise with him. It certainly is too late for the thief to demonstrate obedience in keeping the commandments, but the thief's honesty, at this closing point in his life, that Jesus was sinless, the Christ, and the thief's desire to be with him in the next life, demonstrates a change of heart. The charity which Jesus has for all of us who are honest with him regarding our sins, repentance, and faith in the power of his atonement, cannot be measured. The real question about death bed repentance is, "How honest are we in repenting of our sins to our savior who has the power to forgive them?