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Day Of Atonement And The Mystery Of Azazel - Page 4

Amonhi,

I would like to read your work. It would be interesting.

AlaskanLDS, Gerardian Mormon is a term that I have coined, (and perhaps others as well). I am LDS and I consider myself a Gerardian because I prescribe to his theories on violence, mimesis, scapegoating, and civilization. Which he applies to the atonement. Rene Girard is scholar who developed a theory of violence and civilization. It is one of the strongest theories of out day. He being religious has transcended his work into understanding the atonement of Christ. his not LDS, but you do see some LDS use his work and ideas. Nibley for one seems to use his ideas. Anyway I think LDS scholarship are just beginning to look at his stuff in light of the gospel. He is a hard read, but once you get his Mimesis scapegoat theory down, you will see life, conflict, and the Scriptures and atonement in a new way. He may not be for everyone, but I find him very useful and practical in my work professionally and spiritually. He talks a lot about what we are discussing here.

Azazel Mystery The Atonement Day

Thank you for the explanation. I am going to look into his work and see if I can work my way through it.

Amonhi is no longer on the forum but I think his article was left here under the LDS downloads. If it is not, I could copy and paste it into a PM for you. Just let me know!

Day Of Atonement And The Mystery Of Azazel Studies Doctrine Mormon

AlaskanLDS,

I could not access the download from your link. Could you send it over or give the link again? I am impressed in your willingness to try Girard. He can be tough so be patient with him. Also look for someone to discuss his work with you because it is hard to grasp at times. I would try "The Girard Reader" by James G. Williams as an introductory text. It really does a good job of teaching Girard. This is generally the book used in Universities to introduce Girard. Another book by Gil Bailie called "Violence and the Sacred" is another great book on Girard. Of Girard's works, "the violent and the sacred," "the Scapegoat", or "I see Satan fall like lightning." is another great read by Girard. If you do find Girard interesting then reading "The gospel and the Sacred" by James G. Williams is a great book taking the book of Mark and his version of the Passion story and analyzing it.
But to start out perhaps looking Girard on the web you can find some good resources about who he is. They have a world and national convention each year that deals with his ideas.

Thanks,

Page 4 Azazel Mystery The Atonement Day

Name: John

Comments: Azazel. What an enigmatic figure he has been. He's been given the exhalted title as being the other half of Christ to being accused of being the Devil. The fact of the matter is is that he can not serve as a symbol for the Devil as the selection process of the two goats by God precludes that. They were to be selected by the process of casting two gold lots implying that each was suited to the task of the other. Further more, Gold is symbolic of that which is most desirable. Both lots were gold.
Now who be this Azael? I would suggest that rather than both goats representing one person (Jesus Christ), I propose that salvation as was designed and is currently being carried out is being done by more than one person. There were three persons who embody that covenant to us. Lets eliminate Heavenly Father as being represented by one of those goats as He's already "been there, done that". That leaves two other members of that covenant to carry out the plan of the Father to bring about salvation. In comes first goat labeled and marked "for the Lord'. It makes that goats symbology obvious. It's purpose was to have it's blood shed for the sins of the people. In comes the second goat. He is to have those sins and iniquities laid upon his back and led into the wilderness where these sins are not to return to the people from whence they were taken. Now dose this not describe the function and purpose of the Holy Ghost to cleanse us from our iniquities so that sins need not be repeated? The function of the Holy Ghost was not to die to remove the original deadly effect of sin ie (Christ), his was to simply help carry them away. Salvation never was designed to be wrought by one person but rather by two. One whose name we would know that process by and one who would faithfully remain anonymous and assist him. After all, what are best eternal friends for, anyway?

Message Edited... Persephone: Rob, it is better to Register than keep Posting like this, please also check your spelling before submitting.

Azazel Mystery The Atonement Day

I not sure if I understand what you mean by this, but I do not think I agree. I do not think that this is scriptural. It is only through Christ we are saved, this would imply that the Holy Ghost saves us from sin? I do not think the H.G. Carries away sin, why would we need Christ then?

Not necessary. Gold had Jewish religious connotations, which symbolized God. The arc and Covenant was layered in Gold (ex. 25: 10-13; 17-18). The roads of heaven are paved with gold (rev. 4:4, 21:21) See also job 23:10, proverbs 17:3, 27:21)

Again why then do the scriptures insist that Jesus is the way the truth and the light and that no man can enter heaven but through him? I do not think this is scripturally supported.

Day Of Atonement And The Mystery Of Azazel

When we look in the scriptures we are told of the fall of Satan and the other rebellious angels. It does not tell us of the second rebellion that occurred in the time of Enoch. The ancient Book of Enoch discusses this in great detail. The Book of Enoch is not in the Bible because at the time the Bible was compiled, the Council of Nicea could only find ancient references to this book. In the 18th century a complete copy of the book was discovered.

Anyway the Book of Enoch talks about a group of angels who had been chosen to be Watcher's over the race of man. Some of these Watcher's, headed by Azazel, fell because of their lust for the daughters of men. The children they had were giants, the Nephilim of Genesis 6.

The Nephilim taught humans all manner of war and the black arts. They brought a period of great evil upon the planet. They set themselves up as gods and required human sacrifice to feed them.

The evil they brought to the Earth was so great that the world was destroyed with the flood because the giants could not swim.

We know from the Pearl of Great Price that the giants were afraid of Enoch. They would send armies of humans against him -- he would defeat them by standing in the spirit of the Lord.

Randy

Day Atonement The Mystery Azazel - Page 4

randy,

Despite when the Book of Enoch was discovered, it is still not scripture. They may not have had it at the council of Nicea, but it was not part of the Torah or the books of the prophets hundreds of years before Nicea. Thus even the Jews did not see it as very important. So this makes me to infer that it was not that important of a book back then. So even with modern revelation we still do not call it scripture, to I have to say that this book may or may not have accuracy, and may be just good stories, so as interesting as your post is I have to take it with a grain of salt.

Day Atonement The Mystery Azazel Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 4

For Discussion about the Book of Enoch please see: LDS Theology & The Book Of Enoch