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Lds View On Abu Gahrib Abuses

Proliferating on the net were accounts, testimonials, and accusations of prison abuses by US Military personnels. Let us hear the intelligent views of our fellow Latter-day Saints regarding this topic. The news really disturbed me for a while.

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Good luck getting any answers from American LDS saints on this.

Look, I think that all of this media release stuff is designed to turn the world against the United States. There is all of this footage that is "slipping out". Marines that are murdering civilians for fun. Stories of rape. The whole idea is to isolate us from the rest of the world. Make everyone hate us. That way we are easier to manipulate and brainwash. Seams to be working.

These soldiers got their orders from higher up and now they are scape goats. They were set up. The higher ups in our government want the world to see what terrible people we are so that they can create more foreign terrorists and continue to use the USA for their desire to dominate the world.

Don't think for one minute that this is just an american thing either. This comes from the Europeans and other groups that we fought off in our revolution. Maybe it is time for some Europeans to wake up and start fighting of some of these secret combinations.

Everything that our founding fathers in this country fought is being challenged once again.

We have become an arrogant prideful people that think that we should make decisions for other and take their God given right to free agency.

It is called the "Nephite cycle", I think?

[/OFFTOPIC]
Added later: You are a saint. Do you need others opinions on this matter? I like what others have to say to.... Just look at the scriptures. Look at what the brethren have said. You are part of the Babylon Empire and so are the rest of us. You have more truth available to you than most of the world. What are you doing to understand the secret combinations? We (saints) are the children of israel. It is our responsibility to understand these things.[OFFTOPIC]

Yes what happened is wrong. No one says that it is more wrong than the American soldiers. The real ones.

Edited: Quasar on 29th Aug, 2008 - 4:22am

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It was wrong.
But I do not believe it goes as high up as Quasar believes. I believe it was an isolated incident(meaning few individuals), and was shut down when the abuses came to light. There is no way I could support the actions coming from Abu Ghaib. Of course some will disagree on the levels of involvement of people higher up.

And the percentage of Marines committing atrocities was extremely small in my opinion. It was terrible, but to say that a majority or even a small minority (this would imply a statistically significant amount) of Marines acted in this matter is irresponsible. Those that commit terrible acts should be punished, but the entire military should not be painted with the same brush. We as Latter day saints know that the evil acts of a few Latter day Saints can tarnish the whole. Should we condemn the whole because a few are evil. We should limit our condemnation to only those who commit the acts, and hope that the world does not condemn us for the actions of those Latter day saints who commit evil heinous acts in our ranks.

Some would say the U.S. military is completely evil. Could your assessment be wrong, and the United States Military is full of righteous individuals, or more specifically full of individuals who believe they are fighting for a good cause? Regardless of your disagreement with the reason for the War, can you not acknowledge that many people honestly believe they are fighting for something just? If you cannot at least acknowledge this then you are condemning many good people to damnation. You have judged them in the harshest way, determining them to be murderers because they are fulfilling a civic duty, or defending a way of life that they hold dear.

Condemn those who actually murder and Rape, and acknowledge that you disagree with the rest. They deserve at least that much.

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I don't believe that all of the military is evil. There are many that think they are fighting for a just cause. It is not my job to condemn anyone. Many "righteous soldiers" are now leaving the military because they no longer think it is a righteous war. Napoleon's army thought that their cause was just and so did Hitler's army. The Japanese thought they were doing the right thing in world war 2. I don't believe that our troops are even marginally as bad as these armies, but we have to define what a just cause is. Abu and other incidents are the fruits of an unjust war. That is just my opinion on the matter.

Rather off topic, but... There were no weapons of mass destruction. Sadam was not a threat, but in fact at one time supported and placed there by our own corrupt Government. The reason we are over there is because it is a strategic location for raw materials and it destabilizes a region that may other wise be controlled by our Russian enemy. It has nothing to do with terrorists or how much our government cares about the Iraqi people. I don't believe that God has set America aside to police the world. Our constitution has forbid this. America has sent many righteous to die for an unrighteous war. What happened to letting people govern themselves? Doesn't our action go against the principle of free agency? We can secure other peoples borders but we cant secure our own?

Message Edited... JB: Fixed off topic tags. Make sure the close slash is at the end, not the beginning.

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This argument has never made sense to me. Terrible things have happened in all wars, moral or otherwise. If one looks at World War 2, a war I believe the be a Moral one on the allied side, there were stories of individual soldiers who committed terrible acts. There actions did not mean the cause was not just.

I happen to be one of those people who believe this to be a morally justified war. Therefore I am going to naturally have a more positive outlook on the conflict. I also live relatively close to a military base (Fort Huachuca) and have many relatives that are involved in the military, or who are retired military. This affects my view on defense issues. I am culturally influenced by these factors and Spiritually influence by my upbringing and relationship with my Grandfather, who was part of World War 2 and a strong supporter of the military. I suppose we all have different things that effect our view of the world, and I will always view the world in a U.S. mindset, with a generally positive view of the United States military men and women. I can't help it.

Rather off topic, but... QUOTE   We can secure other peoples borders but we cant secure our own?  I agree, Lets put the military on our borders. We have a problem down here with drug runner having battles with our border patrol, a few well placed squadrons of Marines would stop this problem pretty quickly.

I agree, Lets put the military on our borders. We have a problem down here with drug runner having battles with our border patrol, a few well placed squadrons of Marines would stop this problem pretty quickly.

Lds View On Abu Gahrib Abuses

Good point. My family has also been involved in all of the wars since the beginning of the USA. I agree that WW 2 was a just war in many ways. It was unavoidable. I am an strong supporter of a domestic Military that does not fight under U.N rules.

Do you think vietnam was a just war?

There is a lot of propaganda stating that if you don't support the troops you are not patriotic.

People are tired of this never ending war. It is not supposed to end. Corporations are still making a killing off of it.

Look up Haliburton, black water and some more profit organizations that are making money off of wasting troops.

I know many people that were in Iraq that will tell you what is really going on over there.

Believe what you like.

Edited: Quasar on 30th Aug, 2008 - 5:44pm

Lds View Abu Gahrib Abuses

I thought it was necessary to counter the spread of communist incursion into non communist nations, but I thought it became unjust because we did not fight it to win. That was when the War started becoming problematic. We sent our soldiers into untenable situations, where they had to fight an enemy that was mixed in with the population. I foresee some of the same issues in this conflict. I would hate to be a Latter Day Saint fighting in a War where the Combatant looked like the civilian. There is no clear enemy, but the enemy is there, just like in Vietnam.

I am uncomfortable, like you, with the use of contractors and mercenaries. I hate some of the things that happen in this War as well as all wars, there are many things that disturb me, but I support the overall goal.
The particulars of the war can be disturbing, but I believe we need to change our tactics so that we can win, and win decidedly. I want to end this War today but I want to end it by winning it with overwhelming force and lethality. That is the only Christian and I believe moral way to win a war. Not this slow bleed method that we are practicing now. It only leads to things like Abu Ghaib, and the other atrocities that I have read about.

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It is not our job to stop the spread of communism by force. The last time I checked we are getting fairly socialistic ourselves. If a country wants to be ruled by communism then it is their choice. We have our own dragons to fight here in our own country. We cant even stand up to our own countries government, but we can condemn sheep herders that ride on camels? Do you think that these are the Enemy?

The vietnam war started with a sales pitch about stopping communism. We both know that there were other reasons. Our Nation knows it. The world knows it.

I am not going to sit on a self righteous soap box, because I am not qualified.

I supported the Bush administration to. It just gets down to personal choices. I believe that we are in an evil empire. It has become that way over time. It is just a question of right and wrong.

I would seriously ask God about the rights and wrongs. It is all over the BOM and modern revelation. We are not immune to the secret combinations. In fact it runs rampant with us.

I have chosen my route.

Starting to question things a little? It is a difficult thing to face. It takes a brave soul.

But if you do figure it out don't talk to me about it. Talk to God. After all I could be wrong.

Bite me you Neocon.

Just kidding.