Add Reply
Add Comment As A Guest
Close Topic OptionsProposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage
Proposition 8 Same-sex Marriage - Politics, Business, Civil, History - Posted: 9th Oct, 2008 - 1:41am
Posts: 92 - Views: 10102
Prop 8 - California's Marriage Challenge - Gay Marriage
Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage
Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage
These are serious consequences. And if it fails in California, it will be like dominoes in other states in the U.S. ... The laws will be changed all over, and our freedom to believe and act according to our own will and conscience will be altered dramatically.
QUOTE Six Consequences to Expect if California's Marriage Amendment Fails
1. Children in public schools will be taught that both traditional marriage and same-sex marriage are okay. The California Education Code already requires that health education classes instruct children about marriage. (§51890) Therefore, if the definition of marriage is changed, children will be taught that marriage is a relation between any two adults. There will be serious clashes between the secular school system and the right of parents to teach their children their own values and beliefs.
2. Churches will be sued if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies in their religious buildings that are open to the public. Ask whether your pastor, priest, minister, bishop, or rabbi is ready to perform such marriages in your chapels and sanctuaries.
3. Religious adoption agencies will be challenged by government agencies to give up their long-held right to place children only in homes with both a mother and a father. Catholic Charities in Boston has already closed its doors because of the legalization of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.
4. Religions that sponsor private schools and which provide housing for married students will be required to provide housing for same-sex couples, even if it runs counter to church doctrine, or lose tax exemptions and benefits.
5. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages will be sued for hate speech and could be fined by the government. It has already happened in Canada, one of six countries that have legalized gay marriage.
6. It will cost you money. A change in the definition of marriage will bring a cascade of lawsuits. Even if courts eventually find in favor of a defender of traditional marriage (highly improbable given today's activist judges), think of the money - your money, your church contributions - that will have to be spent on legal fees.
Source 7
1. Children in public schools will be taught that both traditional marriage and same-sex marriage are okay. The California Education Code already requires that health education classes instruct children about marriage. (§51890) Therefore, if the definition of marriage is changed, children will be taught that marriage is a relation between any two adults. There will be serious clashes between the secular school system and the right of parents to teach their children their own values and beliefs.
2. Churches will be sued if they refuse to allow same-sex marriage ceremonies in their religious buildings that are open to the public. Ask whether your pastor, priest, minister, bishop, or rabbi is ready to perform such marriages in your chapels and sanctuaries.
3. Religious adoption agencies will be challenged by government agencies to give up their long-held right to place children only in homes with both a mother and a father. Catholic Charities in Boston has already closed its doors because of the legalization of same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.
4. Religions that sponsor private schools and which provide housing for married students will be required to provide housing for same-sex couples, even if it runs counter to church doctrine, or lose tax exemptions and benefits.
5. Ministers who preach against same-sex marriages will be sued for hate speech and could be fined by the government. It has already happened in Canada, one of six countries that have legalized gay marriage.
6. It will cost you money. A change in the definition of marriage will bring a cascade of lawsuits. Even if courts eventually find in favor of a defender of traditional marriage (highly improbable given today's activist judges), think of the money - your money, your church contributions - that will have to be spent on legal fees.
Source 7
International Level: Ambassador / Political Participation: 595 
59.5%
Marriage Same-Sex Proposition
I'm currently enrolled in a tax return preparation class, and unbeknownst to me, California already has same-sex couple provisions -- it's called Registered Domestic Partners. They have the same protections as married couples have already! Here is a clip from the Franchise Tax Board's Publication 737, from 12/2007:
| QUOTE |
| In general, California affords the same rights - and responsibilities - to RDPs that previously were available only to married individuals. For California tax purposes, the same long-standing rules applicable to married individuals (relating to filing status, community property income, etc.) now apply to RDPs. However, because the federal government does not recognize domestic partners as married individuals for federal tax (IRS) purposes, RDPs will continue to file as unmarried individuals on their federal returns. |
Source 3
So why are they pushing for marriage? Because they want their lifestyle choice to be "sanctified" by having it recognized in CHURCH. Because they feel that, even though their lifestyle choice is condemned in the scriptures of every major religion and by virtually every Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and Muslim and other church now in existence, they can force these institutions to perform same-sex marriages ... or force them to go out of business. This is the ultimate in religion-destroying tactics.
Interestingly enough, I got an email today from the L.A. Gay and Lesbian Center, urging me to donate. They use some very interesting phrases to show how "hateful" their opposition is:
| QUOTE |
| I"m proud to tell you that today the NO on Prop 8 forces were the first to hit the airwaves with a television ad urging people to vote NO on the proposition that would repeal the right [Note - this isn't true!] of same-sex couples to marry. We did what many thought was not possible. In spite of the fact that extremist forces behind Prop 8 have dubbed this "The Armageddon of the culture wars" and mobilized anti-gay churches throughout the land to send in contributions, raising millions more than we have over the last few weeks, we were able to get our ad on the air first. This was critically important because it allows us to frame the debate, which our polling and focus groups have told us is vitally important to a victory on November 4th. We were able to do this thanks to you-your generosity and that of many like you. But now we have a tremendous challenge ahead. We must stay on the air and we need your help to do it. Running TV ads is expensive. Very expensive. But even in this high tech age, it's still proven to be the most effective way to reach the voters. If we are to defeat Prop 8, we must be on the air every single day between now and November 4th! That's why we"re urging you to send a generous contribution right now. It's not only important for California, it's important for the nation. If they win in California they"ll turn their attention to the rest of America. They"ll stop at nothing in their horrible and divisive attempt to take away our rights. We can't stop either! We must defeat them in November! We have to fight back with our own ad campaign. |
We aren't taking away their "rights" do anything. Same-sex couples have never *had* the "right" to marry. It's a semantics trick to get people to sympathize with their cause.
Why did I get this email, you ask? Because I sent in a contribution for my nephew who rode a bike in a fundraiser for AIDS research, AIDS/LifeCycle 2008. Little did I know ....
International Level: Ambassador / Political Participation: 595 59.5%
Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage History & Civil Business Politics
Google has decided to come out in opposition to Proposition 8. This is from the official Google Blog, in its entirety:
| QUOTE |
| Our position on California's No on 8 campaign 9/26/2008 03:23:00 PM As an Internet company, Google is an active participant in policy debates surrounding information access, technology and energy. Because our company has a great diversity of people and opinions -- Democrats and Republicans, conservatives and liberals, all religions and no religion, straight and gay -- we do not generally take a position on issues outside of our field, especially not social issues. So when Proposition 8 appeared on the California ballot, it was an unlikely question for Google to take an official company position on. However, while there are many objections to this proposition -- further government encroachment on personal lives, ambiguously written text -- it is the chilling and discriminatory effect of the proposition on many of our employees that brings Google to publicly oppose Proposition 8. While we respect the strongly-held beliefs that people have on both sides of this argument, we see this fundamentally as an issue of equality. We hope that California voters will vote no on Proposition 8 -- we should not eliminate anyone's fundamental rights, whatever their sexuality, to marry the person they love. Posted by Sergey Brin, Co-founder & President, Technology |
International Level: Ambassador / Political Participation: 595 59.5%
Post Date: 8th Oct, 2008 - 4:32pm / Post ID: #
Marriage Same-Sex Proposition
Now, I have seen some constructive conspiracy thoughts, and some bad ones. This is actually pretty bad. This bill, from what I understand, is completely Constitutional. It goes along with everyone having the right to the pursuit of happiness. So maybe forcing religious institutions to accept same-sex marriage is a bit socialist. But, If your gay and you want to get married, you can't do it because Churches ban the idea. Being gay isn't Heresy, they are not condemning God or any other religious figure. And to think that they are possessed by some demonic entity would be a better argument than, they are not accepted by your religious figurehead. Because by banning them from any sort of public service just because they're gay is Politically Incorrect. Now, I thought that, when you accept Christ as your lord ans savior, you then live by the 10 commandments right? What happened to Thou shall not Judge? Is it Honestly us as humans, to tell what god wants? and I though God created all things? Then why did he make them gay? and I am sorry I cannot present an argument with those who aren't christian. I am only a christian and do not know the works of other religions.
Post Date: 8th Oct, 2008 - 5:04pm / Post ID: #
Marriage Same-Sex Proposition
I am not sure what laws are currently in place in the United States, but could there not be a smaller, simpler bill to start off with, such as the right to marry legally as opposed to religiously?
That way, same-sex couples can have the same rights as every other couple.
I don't think that members of a church should be legally forced to do anything that is outside of their beliefs.
If a large number of same-sex couples want to be sanctified religiously in marriage, it would have to be in a church under a new religion or a religion that allows this type of union. It doesn't make sense to be married under a religion that says you can't be married in that situation.
Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage
This is a possible question that may merit its own section but:
Who should define Marriage?
Should it be the Legislative Branch, Executive Branch, the Judicial (which has been the case of late) or should it be the people?
Or should marriage not be defined by society.
This is what this prop 8 is about: It should be the People who decide this issue and not a small group of unelected Judges?
I say let the people decide, and then we live with the consequences of that decision.
International Level: Politician / Political Participation: 109 10.9%
Proposition 8 Same-Sex Marriage
How can they pass legistation dictating what churches preach from the pulpit? It goes against everything this nation is founded upon. Regardless of what folly man might pass into law it in no way has jurisdiction over God's laws.
I agree with dbackers the people should vote, the majority rules and the judges should stay out of issues such as this.
International Level: Activist / Political Participation: 32 3.2%
Post Date: 9th Oct, 2008 - 1:41am / Post ID: #
Proposition 8 Same-Sex Marriage Politics Business Civil & History
| QUOTE (alskann @ 8-Oct 08, 4:59 PM) |
| How can they pass legistation dictating what churches preach from the pulpit? It goes against everything this nation is founded upon. |
[QUOTE]
And that is true, our nation is founded on the "Unalienable" rights. Now, if I remember correctly. The right to religious freedom, this is what America was originally founded upon because the pilgrims, were kicked out of europe for not following the ideas of the pope. They wanted to live at what they thought the bible meant, not by what some guy with a funny hat says. Now in that sense, where are we going to kick these Homosexual people to because they want to practice christianity the way they see it? They were already in the country which practices, preaches, and encourages freedom. Because obviously America can't give this to them because our own people refuse to let them be free. But how about this. Our entire nation has changed since the great depression. It was originally founded as a very Conservative country. But, it has become almost socialist during the depression because the Government has to step in and intervene. Government funded businesses to regulate prices and give jobs. Propaganda to raise the pride of the American people. And then World War 2 happens. And since then the American Government has been the global police. Now, if our government can step into the rest of the world's affairs and say what is right and what isn't. Why can't our Government handle local affairs because someone is discriminating against same-sex marriage? We have many bills in place, that ensures businesses cannot discriminate against whom it employs because that takes away their freedom. Surely we can tell religious institutions not to discriminate. The only thing a christian church needs to know is this. Do you believe in God's Promise?
Edited: Rhieland on 9th Oct, 2008 - 1:43am TOPIC: Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage