Add Reply
Edited: FarSeer on 
Add Comment As A Guest
Close Topic OptionsProposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage - Page 6 of 12
It seems the LGBT community is divided even - Page 6 - Politics, Business, Civil, History - Posted: 11th Dec, 2008 - 8:38pm
Posts: 92 - Views: 10109
Prop 8 - California's Marriage Challenge - Gay Marriage
Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage - Page 6
According to the L.A. Times this morning, the fight that will continue in court is based on this: Is Prop 8 an amendment to the California constitution, or is it a revision? It's an interesting premise.
| QUOTE |
| After the initiative passed, its opponents filed a legal challenge, claiming Proposition 8 should be invalidated because it was not enacted under the proper procedures for changing the state Constitution. They have a good argument, but one that faces difficult precedents. Article 18 of the state Constitution provides that the document can be changed by amendment or by revision. An amendment may be enacted by initiative with a majority vote, whereas a revision must first be passed by two-thirds of the Legislature before being submitted to the voters. (California's Legislature has voted twice in recent years to legalize same-sex marriage, but the governor vetoed it.) Does Proposition 8 qualify as a revision? Under the case law, it's a revision only if it "substantially alters the basic governmental framework set forth in our Constitution." Proposition 8 does exactly that, its opponents say, by eliminating a fundamental right for a specific group, and by limiting the judiciary's constitutional role in enforcing equal protection and privacy guarantees. Historically, however, the court has taken a narrow view of what kind of measure "substantially alters the basic governmental framework." For example, neither Proposition 13, which capped property tax rates, nor Proposition 140, which imposed legislative term limits, were held to be a revision of the Constitution despite their far-reaching transformation of state government. Moreover, a 1972 initiative that reinstated the death penalty after the court had declared it cruel and unusual punishment was also deemed an amendment, not a revision, even though it directly limited the judiciary's power to declare fundamental rights. Nevertheless, there are good reasons for the California Supreme Court to rethink its jurisprudence in this area. Even if Proposition 8 does not "substantially alter the basic governmental framework," there is no question that it targets a historically vulnerable group and eliminates a very important right. Changing the Constitution -- the state's paramount law -- in such a momentous way arguably calls for deliberative rather than direct democracy. Indeed, as early as the nation's founding, our constitutional tradition has favored representative democracy over simple majority rule when it comes to deciding minority rights. |
International Level: Ambassador / Political Participation: 595 
59.5%
Marriage Same-Sex Proposition
From the Wall Street Journal:
| QUOTE |
| If it walks like a culture war, squawks like a culture war, and has all the ugliness of a culture war, surely it is a culture war -- right? Maybe not. It's true that we've seen some wild things in the days since California voters approved Proposition 8 -- a measure on the state ballot prohibiting same-sex marriage. We've had the burning of the Book of Mormon. The mailing of envelopes filled with white powder to Mormon temples. And activists marching on Mormon churches with signs and shouts of "hate" and "bigot" directed at anyone who might have a difference of opinion. In modern America, of course, these acts all come under the banner of "tolerance." And it's interesting that all those so outraged by the alleged disrespect toward the Quran shown by Guantanamo prison guards (the most sensational report was later retracted by Newsweek) appear unperturbed by the ugliness directed against our Mormon brothers and sisters. The temptation can be to saddle up the horse and ride out to take one's assigned place in the Great American Culture War. Except for one little thing. What we have in America is less a culture war than a constitutional war. And if we could just straighten out the latter, we'd go a long way toward diffusing the former. That much has become clearer in the wake of last week's decision by the California Supreme Court to review the legality of Proposition 8. In California, gay Americans have marriage in all but name -- which many Americans might think a pretty reasonable compromise. But courts tend to think in absolutes -- and when they intervene, woe unto the losing side. |
Source 8
Here's a really good question: Where are the responses of our elected officials? We have not had ONE comment from any mayor, from the governor, or from any legislator in the California government.
| QUOTE |
| "No matter your opinion of Proposition 8, we should all agree that it is wrong to intimidate and harass churches, businesses and individuals for participating in the democratic process," Ron Prentice, of ProtectMarriage.com, said in a statement. "Amidst all this lawlessness, harassment, trampling of civil rights and now domestic terrorism, one thing stands out: the deafening silence of our elected officials," said campaign co-manager Frank Schubert. "Not a single elected leader has spoken out against what is happening. Where is Governor Arnold Schwarzenengger while churches are being attacked? And where is Senator Dianne Feinstein while people are losing their jobs and grandmothers are being bullied by an angry mob?" |
International Level: Ambassador / Political Participation: 595 59.5%
Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage History & Civil Business Politics
You wouldnt really want an answer from them anyway, as it would be a non answer answer. It would probably sound something like this:
Well, I am not really partial to one side or the other on this issue and think it is something best left up to the people of California to decide. They have made their decision on Prop 8 and for those that dont like it, they need to keep working within the legal framework to get it changed. That is the beauty of our democracy. YADA YADA YADA....
I am actually shocked that it passed. I thought for sure that California would shoot it down.
International Level: International Guru / Political Participation: 863 86.3%
Page 6 Marriage Same-Sex Proposition
I was also surprised by the number in support of this, it just goes to show that Hollywood is not speak for all of California although they would like it so.
International Level: International Guru / Political Participation: 3231 100%
Marriage Same-Sex Proposition
In protest of California's passing of Prop 8, there is a new form shaping up ... in Houston. Houston? They are calling it "Day Without A Gay" or "Calling in Gay," and not just taking a day off from work, but no shopping either.
| QUOTE |
| "Day Without A Gay" Attorney Jerry Simoneaux is taking off today. So are the 10 other people who work at his Houston law firm. Eric Weitzel was already scheduled to be off from his retail job, but he plans to call in anyway. Simoneaux and Weitzel are among the gay men and women in Houston and across the country taking part in today's "Day Without a Gay" economic boycott. Outraged by the recent passage of California's Proposition 8 to overturn state rules allowing same-sex couples to marry, they and their supporters want everyone to be clear on where they stand. "We aren't going to lie down and let people treat us as second-class citizens," said Weitzel. Participants are "calling in gay" or, like Simoneaux, shuttering their businesses and closing their wallets as part of a national protest that aims to illustrate the impact of the gay community on the economy and boost awareness of gay rights. Organizers say the Proposition 8 vote and the recent presidential election have created the "perfect storm" to rejuvenate the gay rights movement. Kris Banks, president of the Houston Stonewall Young Democrats, said there has been more outrage and activism over California's ballot initiative than there was in 2005, when Texans approved Proposition 2, which outlawed same-sex marriages. While the gay community has made progress in mainstream media and culture, Banks said Proposition 8 was clear evidence that politically, there's still a lot of work to do. "When the right to marriage was taken away in California, it was more of a spit in the face than anything we've seen so far," he said. Proposition 8 has been challenged legally, and the California Supreme Court is expected to rule next year. |
Source 7
And some are taking the opportunity to serve in volunteer capacity at local shelters, pantries, and schools... in Denver. Washington DC. Sacramento.
| QUOTE |
| We are all for a boycott if that is what brings about a sense of community for people," said Hetherington, 30, who plans to spend Wednesday volunteering at an inner-city school. "You can take away from the economy and give back in other ways." Hetherington said he's been getting 100 e-mails an hour from people looking for volunteer opportunities, and that his "Day Without a Gay" Web site has gotten 100,000 hits since mid-November. Despite Hartzler and Hetherington's attempt to fashion a positive approach, some organizers of the street demonstrations that drew massive crowds in many cities last month have been reluctant to embrace the concept, saying that it could be at best impractical and at worst counterproductive to "call in gay." "It's extra-challenging for people to think about taking off work as a form of protest, given that we are talking about people who may not be out (as gay) at work, and given the current economic situation and job market," said Jules Graves, 38, coordinator of the Colorado Queer Straight Alliance. "There is really not any assurance employers would appreciate it for what it is." Graves' group nonetheless is arranging for interested participants to volunteer at the local African Community Center in Denver. The agency said it could find projects to keep 20 people busy, but so far only 10 have pledged to show up, said Graves. |
International Level: Ambassador / Political Participation: 595 59.5%
Post Date: 10th Dec, 2008 - 3:29pm / Post ID: #
Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage
I try to stay out of this but I felt I have to place my two cents in. I feel that if you live this type of lifestyle then you have every right to do so. I however do not think you should be able to force the government to reconize your right to marriage. I believe many americans view marriage as something very sacred. That does not mean that they have a phobia towards gays it is just something they were brought up believing. I think a lot of people accept this type of lifestyle they just do not want it to be a law forcing them to accept it.
Proposition 8 Same-Sex Marriage Politics Business Civil & History - Page 6
It seems the LGBT community is divided even amongst itself.
| QUOTE |
'Day without a gay' protest fizzles Matthai Kuruvila, Chronicle Staff Writer Thursday, December 11, 2008 Activists had billed Wednesday as "a day without a gay," when gays and lesbians across the country would call in sick, boycott shopping and show the impact of their absence from everyday life. Designed to be a protest against the Nov. 4 passage of Proposition 8, which bans same-sex marriage, the day's events drew only scattered support in the Bay Area, the heart of the gay rights movement, and also criticism. Several gay and lesbian people said they couldn't afford to take the day off, particularly in a tightening economy where many are concerned about their jobs. And in the Castro district, business owners were livid that people were encouraged to not shop during the holidays, a peak time for retailers. "Our rights have been taken away as much as anyone else's," said Rich Boutell, who runs Whatever comics on Castro Street and whose marriage was thrown into limbo with the Nov. 4 election. He and his husband, Cougar Andrews, kept their store open and wished the "day without a gay" organizers had encouraged gay-allied individuals to patronize gay-owned businesses. "The whole purpose should be to support your own, not to boycott. If you're going to have a protest, it should be a positive thing. The gay dollar is powerful." |
International Level: Ambassador / Political Participation: 595 59.5%
TOPIC: Proposition 8 - Same-Sex Marriage