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Amonhi Submission - Page 5

AlaskanLDS:

Harsh? Sarcastic? Or straightforward? Because I am not afraid to speak my mind as you can see. I surely do not "sweet talk" or "butter things up" to make it sound attractive, I am a matter of fact person and is reflected in the way I write so people know exactly what I think and there is no misunderstandings.

Sure. I am speaking about both of us, hence I used "we" and not "you" only. What I meant is simple. We do not know each other and we do not know our past and present choices and experiences that in my opinion determines our foundation in life to whether follow doctrines of men or doctrines of God. I am not here to judge where your foundation is, neither you are here to judge where mine is. I am just stating that in my view, situations like this one, determines where our foundation *truly* is: God or men. I hope that answers your question.

I will continue monitoring Amonhi's movements in the Community since I believe he is a threat and has a mission to accomplish here and expose his ideas as I see it fit. Having said that, I want to say that I wish you all the best and may God bless you and your family always.

LDS

Submission Amonhi

Perhaps, however, I prophesied regarding your current actions to you long ago. In an email in which you wrote on Sept. 14, 2008 [..]

This was part of the private email exchange between you and I. Even several emails after this you were very friendly as I tried to find a way to help you. This prophecy was made long before you had expressed any disapproval toward me, my actions or my beliefs. If that wasn't a prophecy regarding your actions against me, then I do not know what is. (However, I would agree that I was not being a prophet over you, but I was being a prophet over my own life and was told to protect myself from you and encouraged you in a way I thought would prevent you from attacking me. Unfortunately it hasn't as yet helped.)

Regarding the accusation of being Elliaison, we tried to explain before in our private emails:
- Although I did have significant input in the article "By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them", I have not been authorized to take credit for Elliaison's writings, and so should not have stated so in my earlier post.
- To say my wife and I ARE Elliaison is false, inaccurate and misleading.
- We have on occasion represented their work and spoken for them as if we were "one".
- I hardly understand "Elliaison". And for you to make statements like this tells me that you know even less than I do at this time.
- Privacy is not a deception. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing. But your making a statement that I am Elliaison is inaccurate and a falsehood.
- Do not make statements about things you do not understand.
- Those who are spiritually minded will see. Those who are not will find themselves in spiritual darkness.

As predicted, in multiple ways, you have made an assassination attempt on my character saying I am both a liar and satanic. Privacy is not a lie. There is nothing wrong with desiring to remain anonymous. In my mind, heaven is where people treat others how they want to be treated. We attempt to Follow Christ's example, where even the 'sinner" was not condemned by him, but treated with love and kindness and 'set free" from their accusers, and those who would have sought to destroy them.

You cannot and do not have the Spirit unless you are experiencing it's fruits. "

A Fraud is defined as: A person who uses, "deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage." - Dictionary.com

In order for me to be a fraud, I would have to be intentionally deceiving you. If on the other hand, if am being honest in my belief, then I am not a fraud. I have said that I have my calling and election made sure. And it is true, I do. And the Lord has graciously granted me a second witness in this forum. LDS_Forever asked me point blank if I had received my calling and election made sure. After responding affirmatively, and telling her that the spirit told me she already knew by the spirit, I requested that she clarify how she "already knew". To this, Lds_Forever said, "I don't know, I just felt it.... And yes, I expected you to tell me you had."

Later she recanted slightly and said, "I do think he had his Call and Election Made Sure now by whose authority and if indeed comes from God that's another different issue."

I know that she received a witness, because the spirit told me that it told her. She knew, (And this was all expressed in the calling and election thread.) I would be surprised if she were going to blaspheme the Holy Ghost by denying it's witness. Even with her slight recant, we agree that I had an experience in which I received a witness of my calling and election made sure, (from Satan or God). Either way, whether I was deceived by Satan or blessed by God, I am not a fraud. Even in the worse case scenario, I am the deceived (not the deceiver) and in the best case I am as I say.

I have never pointed anyone to me, only to God. No one needs me when they have God, and God is free for everyone. I am no better than you or anyone else. I live in a world of equals. I have never felt Christ treat me like he was greater than I or anyone else, I try to follow that example. The entire gospel message is about making us equal with Christ and ultimately equal with God. God wants to be our friend, not our master. If I have treated anyone as less than myself, then I apologize and ask for your forgiveness as a foible of being a fallible man.

I have addressed this before. Yes, this church was setup by God as a stepping stone to bring us back into God's presence. Had God used stepping stones in the past? Yes. Is it any wonder that in the "fullness of times" God would restore "all things" including the stepping stones? Yours is the same argument that Christ addressed when he said,

I cannot say this without lying, and I am pleased about that membership.

You wouldn't have been frustrated with Paul who said of Abraham,

If you disagree with my understanding of the Scriptures, then let's go back and discuss them. I began "infiltrating" the church the day I was given a name and blessing and my name went on the church records. I am not an anti-LDS, even though it might at times be hard when some members show me as much Christ like love as you have.

I said no such thing. "Believe" and 'treated" are very different words. I said, "The way you treat me, or anyone else for that matter, I"S the way you would have treated Christ or Joseph Smith". I have said nothing different than Christ himself taught when he said,

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." - Matt. 25:40

Who is the least among us? Is it the prophets and apostles that we look upto or is it the sinners those we despise? In this forum right now, I would venture to say I am the least among you, the most hated and despised.

If you go back and read what I wrote, you will find that I complemented someone who disagreed with me using the same words. I was telling them thank you for being so friendly even though you disagreed with me. And this is how you would have 'treated" Christ or Joseph Smith, even if you did not believe them like the majority of the people in their day. This is how I treat others, even if I disagree with them. Do you think you are better than so many of those people back then? I do not.

Of those who disagreed with Christ or Joseph Smith, some lovingly let them be. Others became angered and venomous and sought to find fault with them and accuse them even to the point of hating them. When we disagree with another, myself included, we have the opportunity to react either lovingly with peace or with hate and war. It is all about how we treat and react to those who disagree with us or in other cases hate us. It is fine to disagree. When we do, I will either attempt to persuade or be persuaded, but never with Hate or anger. This is what I am referring to, and again, I have applauded others for their reaction using the same words.

I live my life such that if I did not recognize Christ I still would not have demanded his destruction. And was that not his message? Did he not teach,

And finally, LDS_Forever says,

Are we all not to be Saviors of our brethren? Do we all not take upon us the name or title of "Christ" at baptism? Should we not be Amonhi Christ or LDS_Forever Christ just as Jesus of Nazareth took on the name of Christ? Should we not strive to become like him by following his footsteps?

Is it not written in your law, "I said, Ye are gods"? If he called them gods, unto whom the Son of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Then why say ye of him, whom seeks unto the Son of God, "Thou blasphemest", because I said, I am an equal heir with the Son of God?

Seek and you shall find Satan under every rock. Or Seek and ye shall find Christ everywhere. If you want to find the good in others you will. If you want to find the evil, you will and in this way, Christ was killed.

Amonhi Submission Studies Doctrine Mormon

Why not? Isn't that where it is coming from? Personally, when I interject my opinions and beliefs that are not official doctrine of the church I would call it the "Doctrine of Ann." It is not a durogatory label, it just clarifies that what is written or said is NOT official Church doctrine. Doesn't mean I am right or wrong. Calling what Amonhi submits "Amonhi Doctrine" does not mean he is right or wrong, it just clarifies that it is Amonhi's perspective and not necessarily official Church doctrine. It is very important that the lines between Church Doctrine and the doctrine of any other source are kept clear.

The discernment of any doctrine should be a personally quest of each of us. But unless we have stewardship over another or a direct commandment from God we have no business directing or expecting anything of others.

Page 5 Submission Amonhi

If this is not a summation of the Amonhi Doctrine then I do not know what is.

Submission Amonhi

I cannot believe you have face to show up here with more of your deception or perhaps as you declare your honest beliefs which are NOT in conjunction with the Church - this is called FALSE Doctrine. It is one thing to have an opinion, quite another to teach it. You are a deceiver and you know that if you were to bring up any of these things to the Church you would be excommunicated for teaching false doctrine. Therefore what you call 'prophecy' is in fact your will to try and hide yourself. What I Discuss here I am unafraid to share with anyone, even outside of the Community, in fact I have done so before because I am sharing my opinion and not trying to hide from a dark corner and use the internet as conduit to encourage people to turn from Christ because there is some higher law out there perceived by Amonhi.

First of all, you did not Email me, you were Emailing LDS_forever, do not try to mix-up the two, so whatever prophecy you are talking about I care nothing about. Besides your example of 'prophecy' is like a thief saying to a policeman... "If you come at two in the morning and find me breaking into your house then you will dislike me for it", well isn't that obvious.

Next, I have not brought up details of Emails, but since you do, it brings up avenues for me to paint the real picture and not your version of reality... let's start the music:

1. You joined our Community for awhile now. From your RAVE Thread anyone can read that you were very sarcastic in the beginning and ridiculed our methods (your true nature) of our Administration, something directly opposed to our rules. I would like to note here that we give people many chances to adapt to this Community but for some who think we are harsh they only see the END result and not the chances given. Continuing, I even had to visit the Thread and as part of my 'welcome' I told you your sarcasm was unnecessary. Then you chose to tone down for awhile.

2. You took a 'time out' and posted more, but started to touch on a lot of issues which belong in the Mature LDS section, and so I suggested that you Upgrade (much to my regret).

3. Everything seemed to go fine until you went all as I put it 'mental' in your Posts talking about your seven year old naked on a nudist beach, and masturbating with hymns. Asking if we have Mormon Nudist Threads here. From then I knew there was something wrong with the picture you were painting. I outright told you I disagree with your Masturbation Doctrine because you make it look believable but it was directly opposed to the teachings of God / Church to which you found some pleasure in, little did you know our investigations started. We did not bring it up yet, because we did not want to alert you, thus it made the finding out easier.

4. Somewhere in there LDS_forever informs me that you of your own accord and without us asking claim to offer help for us to migrate. You stated that you wanted to start a corporation and have me as part of it, and get this folks... we are taking about a half million investment to satisfy immigration. We purposely told you that we would not pursue that - who would do such things with someone who would not even tell you their first name? Can you imagine immigrating to another country based on the unknown. I could just see the US Embassy here asking me for details about it and I would have to say "His name is Amonhi from an online Community". You must have thought we were naive fools. We continued our investigations. We told you we would pursue going to Canada (which we want to) and to satisfy that we would need US$30,000 which was way less than what you were proposing to see how serious you were, it is also an actual figure need to migrate from here. You even reached the claim of being able to give us US$30,000 towards it. Yes folks, imagine that. It was all to strange so we supplied you with some information to see where you were taking this, but having already thoroughly done our research to find out who you were in real life. Why? Get this folks... just imagine someone writes you asking for personal details and promises to give you large sums of money but when you ask them something as simple as what they do for work they utterly refuse to tell you, it reminds me of those National Geographic documentaries about people leaving for other countries to bring back drugs with the hope of a large cash payout (we already knew who the person was though). It is PUBLIC knowledge that we want to migrate, we even recently started websites on it. My name is all over the net and what we do - transparency shows truth. Amonhi, I will not embarrass you by what I see as such deceptive and contradictions in your Emails by supplying actual quotes with your idea to 'sponsor' and 'help' us. No, I will not quote from them, I do not need to, because you said enough right here for everyone to see. Of course folks you know how it continues... he does not give us US$30,000 of course we did not expect it either... instead he tries to get us to sell books for him. Sorry, but all of this is kind of funny, crazy and Jerry Lewis all in one. What a ride! Who would TRY to 'play' with people who have a special needs son and want to provide a better way for him. Instead of just being upfront they TRY to spin you like a top - folks that bites!

5. Then after LDS_forever Emailed you to show you that we knew who you were and showed the inconsistencies in your messages / Emails / claims of helping us, etc. you admitted that it was in deed a huge problem and that you were in the wrong. I will add here that every time Amonhi writes LDS_forever he does so with long discourses and some scripture, even to cover his tracks. I mean if you want to do things properly a dozen scriptures isn't going to make something untrue suddenly true.

6. Having now been glad that you recognized the fault LDS_forever encouraged you to be honest, both in dealing with Members here and the presentation of your message. Essentially we gave you a 'second chance'.

7. A little time passes and then what do you do... instead of writing LDS_forever back and saying that you will do so you come here starting new Threads in fury full of Amonhi Doctrine disguising it as though it were inspired LDS Doctrine when in fact for me it is the end result of delirious mind believing that he is something similar to the savior or prophet over people.

Here is my take on it, on all of this...

1. You did not have your Call and Election Sure in the Temple or by the Church, so by what you got it is anyone's guess?

2. I seriously doubt that if I were to reach a stage of my promise being made sure I would not want to try masturbating to hymns. Masturbating is not even an issue for me, but if it were I would think that having reached so far as to claim interactions with Christ as Moses did I would not be such a man of the flesh. Actually, I would not share it with anyone - period! However, these things are brought to light by your own words and to show us the underlying problem in Amonhi Doctrine.

3. Next, you use the same common practices of repeating yourself, instead of addressing the actual issue you try to go off of tangents hoping the reader forgets the subject at hand, but it does not work with us. We are too watchful for that, so are others here like Dbackers and FarSeer, so it is not only us who see you for what you really are. You always try this same method to:

Always making some comparison to Christ or the Prophets, saying only what they would have said and our treatment of you is the same as the ones who ridiculed the prophets or Christ. Please... you have been exposed, accept it and move on. If you think you are really so right and that it is correct to share these things openly then start your OWN forum, set your OWN rules and talk about it.... but no, you can't do that, because then people will try to inquire of you and the trouble will start. It is easier to do so from the disguise of LDS Doctrine when it is your OWN Doctrine.

4. I believe you think you are some sort of chosen prophet or savior (I mean in the realm of how we would see Moses, not just a prophet to ourselves) set apart to proselyte for what you believe to be another Church - the Church of the Firstborn. You are a FALSE Prophet.

5. Do the right thing, leave this place and take Amonhi Doctrine with you, because it is teachings that are based on encouraging people to sway away from the Church and that is not allowed here in the Mature or Public sections. If it were that you could just post opinions and focus on other things then maybe you could stay, but no, you will try to deceive others and I cannot allow you to do that. I do not need to put myself or Mods or Bots through that either, we have bigger things to do than waste what I considerable amount of valuable time on this. Sorry to say this is yet another Forum that will ban you, yes we know others have banned you before. Maybe you should learn to keep your 'stuff' to yourself and just focus on Christ for only HE is the way, the Truth, and the Light, no man comes to the Father but by HIM!

Amonhi Submission

Amonhi:

Really? Then you ARE false, inaccurate and trying to mislead. In one of your private e-mails with your usual riddle game you stated:

Oh please, do not insult our intelligence.

Do not try to twist things around here. I feel the same way: I do think you had your Call and Election Sure but whether that's the reality of what truly happened is a DIFFERENT story hence I ASKED more questions to follow up and I found the responses coming from someone who is either a deceiver or he is mentally disturbed. More things you wrote, more I realized that something is not right with you at all. Also you failed to mention that in our many private conversations where YOU stated that I felt the "Spirit" witnessing to ME, I never replied saying the "Spirit" confirmed me of these things. NEVER, because IT NEVER HAPPENED. I hope I am very clear on that point.

Even when your wife and you so "Openly" expressed that you all have seen Christ, were held in his loving arms and saw his prints on his hands, OUR reply NEVER EVER mentioned ANYTHING about that, did you notice that?

But again this is NOT about me, isn't? Nice try Amonhi, I know your methods, I know the methods people like you use. You are not going to confuse anybody else here neither you would try to make me or anyone else look bad for your sake.You do not need to focus on me or others, but because you cannot explain some of the shocking things you have stated in this forum(like the masturbation thing, your daughter naked or your finding interesting "Pop ups" breasts) you try to use your "Perceived" views on others as a tool to make you more credible. But you know what? It doesn't work! So get over it.

You have an agenda to be fulfilled but I won't let you, you're walking in darkness and saying evil things are good and good things are evil:

The end of Amonhi's era is approaching. Another false prophet bites the dust.

Update: He just sent me an e-mail stating that he went ahead and sent us MONEY! What the heck? Someone is trying to cover things up by this, so he looks like he *did* help (someone is checking past e-mails eh). He KNOWS as JB posted that he said certain things about money but now by checking his e-mails he realizes he sounds like a fool because he never showed anything, but just words so this is a cheap and rush attempt to cover up bases. Well guess what? I replied stating that we do NOT wish any money from him neither further communication. He tried to send money through Paypal but we rejected it.

Amonhi Submission - Page 5

To clear up a few things:
[..]
- I choose to remain anonymous, (and no one has even asked why). It is not a sin to help others anonymously.

I never said I did this after having my calling and election made sure. I had been preparing a post to explain why I said this, (responding to AlaskanLDS's questions on the forum and in person). Rather than give you the long version which I normally would do, I will say this and clarify with details if requested.

I, like Nighthawk was addicted to masturbation. I struggled with it for too many years. I spoke with my bishop before my mission about it and worked with the bishop on the "repentance process" and read various talks on it but it didn't help. Later, while serving a mission I would do it and while confessing to my mission president, after asking me a few questions, he practically brushed it off with a heavy Australian accent, "Oh, Elder Amonhi, is that all? You had me convinced it was something serious." (It was a big deal to me, but not him.) "Elder, I wish that was the biggest problem of all my elders." (He also said other things that I don't feel comfortable sharing with this crowd.) Finding no real help there, I continued to struggle with it. I was consumed with guilt and shame.

Skipping to the end, it was not until I could see the lies and deceptions surounding masturbation that I was able to overcome my problem. Lies like, you can only do it while thinking pornographic thoughts. I did alot of inner exploration and learned about male cycles and to recognize when and why I was drawn to it. I had a very low self esteem. When I was made to feel bad about myself I would turn to it like an alcoholic turns to alcohol. I did Masturbate to a hymn, and found it to be better spiritually than doing it to pornography. Leaving out a lot of detail, doing this and other things to see through the illusions surrounding masterbation was how I got out of it. If I still believed the unfounded misconceptions that you were teaching about it, then I would still be stuck in it. So, I suggested that you either try it or believe those who have already witnessed. My hope was that those who are already doing it would begin to reconsider what they thought was true regarding it and begin seeing through the illusion. And I knew that those who did not have a problem with it would not try it and would believe the 4 witnesses mentioned in the thread. I began my post in that thread stating,

I knew that I would loose credibility and receive a backlash like this, but it was more important to me to help those who were facing this same problem that I had experience in. I would be happy to post more regarding how I over came this sin were I given the freedom to do so. (I also made that prophecy before I even knew I would make that post which you said was when you became concerned. I suggest that we judge not lest we be judged, for by that same judgement we judge, we will be judged.)

Regarding my daughter. Having learned what causes addictions to masturbation and porn, I am raising her in a way to avoid such addictions by teaching her the truths behind the illusions. She will never have the problems I had with this issue.

Regarding Elliaison, I do not mean to be confusing on this issue, I do not know if it works like "Divine investiture of authority" or some other doctrine that would allow us to act as "One". Until I learn I cannot say more.

- I did not send money for my benifit. I could not call myself a follower of Christ if I was not willing to follow the same direction I posted to you.

-I even did it privately to be consistant with my understanding of Christ's teachings. And wouldn't have mentioned it had you not brough it up.

AlaskanLDS, Thank you for your "Defence" I am sorry you were attacked as well. I believe that you are recognizing the difrence between Love and Hate. The fruits by which we know them are not the actions, but the motivations behind the actions. for example, the fruits of the spirit are love, peace joy, long suffering and faith. These are the "Fruits" by which we know the spirit. When people speak "Doctrine" with hate, anger and malice and other negative and degrading feelings or intentions they are wolves in sheeps clothing. Wolves because their intent is to tear and destroy. Sheeps clothing because they are quoting scripture or apear to be doing good. But, as the scriptures teach clearly, no good can be done with the tools of the devil including hate, rage and anger. And no bad can be done with the tools of God, peace, love, long suffering. This is the message of Moro. 7. Thank you for being a peace maker, even if you do not agree with me.

Amonhi Submission Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 5

I am tired of you, and your lies... here is some doctrine for you to hate - deleted. I will not go quoting his every line of Email and taking more PRECIOUS time on this to show where he is continuing to lie. Hopefully, this is the end of this, and he does not try deception again by rejoining. You all are free to continue to comment on his / her / them comments if you so desire.

Rather off topic, but... I have started a new Thread in this Board to evaluate whom we allow in here and what they will share / do.