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2 Sets Of 12 Apostles? - Page 3

I see there is one aspect of the Nephite 12 Disciples (Apostles) which has been overlooked as well as one aspect of the Jerusalem 12 Apostles as well has been overlooked in this discussion.

In the Vision of the Tree of Life in 1 Nephi Chapters 11 through 14, the Jerusalem 12 Apostles are called during this vision as stated in 1 Nephi 11:29.

Just to be sure of the events in the vision Nephi saw, 1 Nephi 11:33 & 34, the Lord is slain and crucified for the sins of the world.

In 1 Nephi 12:6 & 7, the resurrected Christ descends upon the American continent and chooses the Nephite 12 Disciples (Apostles).

It is in 1 Nephi 12:8-10 in which we see the distinct aspect of why these two set of 12 Apostles are different.

So the two sets of Apostles on the two different continents are very much in leadership roles for two different sets of people, yet there is still a distinctness of why they are different.

Therefore, the seed of Nephi will be judged by the Nephite 12 Disciples (Apostles) and the Nephite 12 Disciples (Apostles) will be judged by the Jerusalem 12 Apostles because Nephi, his seed and the Nephite 12 Disciples (Apostles) are of the House of Israel.

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Apostles Sets

Then the 12 apostles who were in Jerusalem are in a higher postion than the ones that were in the Americas. Good point, but then are the 12 who were in the Americas still acting as apostles?

2 Sets Of 12 Apostles? Studies Doctrine Mormon

Name: Andy

Comments: Revelations 4:10

How would this fit?

Page 3 Apostles Sets

It seems to me that when Jesus visited the Nephites, he did so with the intent to give them the milk and the meat in succession:

It seems to state that the Lord gave them the Aaronic Priesthood very recently or at the time he was speaking....like they did not even have the Aaronic Priesthood yet? How could they be called as Apostles without the Melchezidek Priesthood?
How did Nephi get anything done without any MP holders?

In fact, it seems that Jesus stated in the same verse that HE would be administering the Baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost:

Doesn't this indicate that the chosen did not have the higher Priesthood? They must have progressed really fast in their knowledge of the Gospel. Given, they were in the presence of the Glorified Jesus. Perhaps a willing person could learn a lot from Jesus if he were in your midst.

We read in Chapter 18 that it wasn't until (days later?) then that Jesus ordained them with the Melchezidek Priesthood:

So, to the question of whether these were apostles, or mere disciples. Perhaps they were not called as Apostles at first, but in succeeding days, maybe Jesus felt that they had learned enough by his power to properly administer to the people. They did need somebody to administer to them after Jesus left. Nowhere have I read that there is only 12 at a time, in fact, there are 15 now, just as a previous post mentioned. Maybe one day, there will be a 1st quorum of the 12, and a 2nd quorum of the 12 and so on.

I am pretty sure the scriptures say that after Jesus returns, he will come with his 12 apostles and that they will be in Jerusalem and the other apostles (of the LDS church) will be in the new Jerusalem each performing different functions.

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Apostles Sets

This is funny..
Theres nothing wrong with having another group of 12 apostles some where else. Whats wrong with that? I mean, The Nephites had prophets the same time the middle eastern people had prophets. God can call as much as he wants wherever he may..
If you look at dispensations in the bible dictionary..It says nephites had dispensations, there were many, John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were both seperate dispensations. It doesnt matter how many prophets or apostles there are around the world.
Well thats my opinion

2 Sets Of 12 Apostles?

I would say so. It's the same office and the same responsibility.

Let's remember that the organization of the church is perfect because it is 1) designed by God and 2) God's perfect love mandates that He organize the church in the most effective way to teach His children to be like Him.

This is why the church was still true and perfect in organization before the First President was organized, and why it was perfectly organized before AND after there was a Patriarch of the church. This is why it's still a perfect organization if there are seven counselors to the President or three or two--the common thread is that it is the most effective organization to perfect God's children at the time and given the circumstances.

Now, there will (a) always be apostles and a (b) quorum of apostles is always twelve.

a) there must be special, personal witnesses to the Savior in order for the gospel to be taught (and to tie this in with me premise, only with the gospel of Jesus Christ can Heavenly Father's children be perfected). To be brief, personal witnesses are always necessary. To be a seer is the greatest spiritual gift God gives (Mosiah 8)--personal interaction with heaven having more power to educate than rational study (Joseph Smith's quote about seeing into heaven 5 minutes). It is what made a 14 year old Joseph Smith more educated about God than all the studied preachers and "religious lawyers" of the time. Apostles are necessary for any church that will be true and living.

b) Apostles are to testify of Christ and Christ is to save us. In order to be saved, we must be grafted into the family of Abraham, and thus blood heirs to the promises God made to Abraham. In order to do this we are, as followers of Christ, placed within the twelve tribes of Israel. There is no salvation without being part of this family, by birth or adoption. And since apostles exist to bring salvation to people, they are always in quorums of twelve.

But beyond that there are variables. Can there be more than one quorum of the twelve? Of course, especially when this fits with the "perfection of God's children" mission of the church. If having twelve personal witnesses of God on the American continent were the most effective way for God to perfect his children, and God did NOT put in place a secondary twelve--he would cease to be God.

And, of course, it is necessary that there be personal witnesses for the people in the Americas (see point "a" above), no witness from the Palestinian twelve could get to the believers in the Americas in the continuous way God needs it to. And, since these special witnesses are always in twelves, there were twelve American apostles.

Edited: arnaen on 23rd Jan, 2009 - 7:57am