There is an old article in the Deseret News about rape in Provo which brought a lot of questions in my mind. The article talks about some victims of rape who said things like:
"I should have died before I let him do that to me"
Interesting enough, this is NOT an isolated incident. Many LDS women believe and say similar things to the statement above. Some even quote Church leaders on this issue (I never saw any explicit statements about it, but if you all have please share). My points are:
1. Are we indirectly teaching to our Young Women in the Church that if you are a victim of rape you are losing your chastity?
2. Would you marry someone knowing she has been a victim of rape? Why/Why not?
3. The message of "Girls, dress modestly. Boys tend to have bad thoughts when they see you dressing immodestly" isn't in a way stating that the way a woman dresses MAY cause the woman in question to be raped?
In the end, the victim seem to be victimized twice...first on the rape itself then in thinking she is at fault for not "fighting hard" enough.
Thoughts?
https://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,515039389,00.html
QUOTE (LDS_forever @ 2-Feb 08, 1:33 PM) |
3. The message of "Girls, dress modestly. Boys tend to have bad thoughts when they see you dressing immodestly" isn't in a way stating that the way a woman dresses MAY cause the woman in question to be raped? In the end, the victim seem to be victimized twice...first on the rape itself then in thinking she is at fault for not "fighting hard" enough. |
AlaskanLDS:
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I think the point of how one dresses is relative. |
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If girls dress immodest, I think it can send a signal to the opposite sex that they are easier. |
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about them feeling like they didn't fight hard enough or so forth....I wonder if that comes from parents or friends more than the church? |
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1. Are we indirectly teaching to our Young Women in the Church that if you are a victim of rape you are losing your chastity? |
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2. Would you marry someone knowing she has been a victim of rape? Why/Why not? |
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3. The message of "Girls, dress modestly. Boys tend to have bad thoughts when they see you dressing immodestly" isn't in a way stating that the way a woman dresses MAY cause the woman in question to be raped? |
QUOTE (LDS_forever @ 3-Feb 08, 3:12 PM) |
Not sure what you are trying to say, maybe you could please clarify? In my opinion, just because the way a girl dresses may send "signals" does not mean the girl looked to be raped because of the way she dressed but doesn't people indirectly make those statements? Like..."Oh, well...look at the way she dressed no wonder...." Or if a girl has been drinking..."Well, she was drinking...." We are implying somehow that these women looked to be raped and I think is a horrible way of looking at things. |
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...but definitely I won't teach them that dressing modesty is a way of preventing rape because it is not. |
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You could say that immodest dressing may add to a man's sexual feelings. Not giving him an excuse, though. |
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Not sure how long have you been a member but this thinking comes from the Church for a very long time "Better to die than to lose your chastity". |
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The quote "it is better to die than to lose your chastity" doesn't necessarily relate to rape or similar. I think that sometimes it would be better to die than to willingly submit to sexual activities before marriage. |
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....For me, it is a dangerous statement because are we saying if a person falls victim of rape they are losing their chastity? Where in the world do we get that idea from? |
AlaskanLDS, I think this is the main point where we disagree.
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if you are raped in a situation where it is about control, power etc. then they took away your choice to remain that chaste, even if you have done everything in your power to be so. |
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When a young (or older) woman is deciding what to wear for a date then it should not be revealing or immodest. It can be attractive without those things. I read I think before you were into fashion and modeling LDS, is it not true that most of the "worlds" fashions are meant to flatter and reveal? If someone is wearing something like that, it seems it would be because she is sending out the message that she is sexy in an immodest way. |
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if the circumstance becomes one of date rape because of your dress and actions--I feel you had a choice in the matter, at least from the start. I feel it can be a matter of consequence for bad choices. |
QUOTE (LDS_forever @ 20-Feb 08, 4:37 AM) |
AlaskanLDS, I think this is the main point where we disagree. |
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Rape it is ALWAYS about control and power and NOT about sex. There is no "If". I think most of us think is a "sex" issue because of the act in itself but has nothing to do with sex. |
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a serial rapist or a father raping his own daughter |
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in ALL these cases is about "control and power" and nothing to do with sexual gratification |
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My whole point is that as a mother I would teach my daughters to dress modesty because that's the right thing to do NOT because it will prevent them somehow of being raped because it is NOT true. If that was the case, nuns would not have been raped and they have been. |
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So if a woman dresses immodestly, goes to a date and she is raped, she loses her chastity? Is that what you are saying? |
I have to preface this by saying it is just my opinion, and coming from a male perspective (this is a mature subject so I assume I can be frank).
I have never understood the argument about rape not being about Sex at all. I am not a pervert and have never advocated Rape, its disgusting, and it sickens me that men cannot control themselves. Furthermore, rape is a violation of that which is most pure, and we should blame the Rapist and never the Victim.
This being said, the sex drive in men is very strong. Is there not some aspect of rape that involves a man taking something that he wants and doing it forcibly?
If someone steals something(a Car, Money, anything) from someone else there is an element of them trying to get power over someone else. But mainly isn't it about them wanting what someone else has.
If a man wants sex and he chooses to steal it, it is about sex, though a perverted and disgusting aspect of it.
Men have the uncanny ability to separate sexuality and love, a fact that gets us into trouble. Why do you think President Hinkley fought so hard against Pornography. It was about Sex, but a gross misuse of Sex.
When we say that Rape has nothing to do with Sex do we not deny the nature the what the Book of Mormon calls the "Natural Man", who without the Savior is at his base, wicked and in need of redemption?
Men, in particular, have to control their sexual passions or they will get into trouble. And regardless of how the young women dress in and out of the church, it is our responsibility as priesthood holders to understand that sexual relations must be kept within the bounds the Lord has set.
I admit that everything that I have written may be completely wrong, and I have had trepidations about posting this, but I have written it to foster discussion and resolve my own questions about this issue.