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Mormons - When Children Are Raped, Abused & Killed - Page 12

I am always reminded of Enoch in the PoGP when he sees God weeping. He asks God why do you weep, when you are the most powerful being? God's answer was I weep because my children keep killing and harming each other.

I think that this speaks volumes as to our God. He is a weeping God, who according to Enoch could do nothing but weep over the behavior of his children. This is the price of agency I suppose. That God's power is limited into what he can do in controling our agency. Kind of makes us wonder if this was not one of Satan's arguements against moral agency. That is we follow his (satan) plan no one would have to suffer, no child would be killed, abused, or raped unjustly. After living this life, I can kind of see why this would be appealing to a third of our brothers and sisters. But we chose god's plan and even though it is tough and at times no satisfying answers, we have to rely of faith, and belief to influence and be a light in this world.
As Enoch's conversation assumes, God's power seems to be limited by our agency. So perhaps things happen that are out of his control, but we do know that God can take a bad situation from ones mismanagement of agency and transform it into good or salvage the us from the damage that has been done. This is called healing.

Killed and Abused Raped Children - Mormons

Isiah53:

If that's the case, why sometimes he doesn't do it allowing the victim of abuse become an abuser himself/herself?

Mormons - When Children Are Raped, Abused & Killed Studies Doctrine Mormon

Isiah53, I guess you can essentially say that but then again you have the added input of where does the abused child have the right to exercise her agency and make choices - she has none. Also how are some children allotted good parents, a nice environment and then others suffer brutally - this is about agency? If you want to bring in the per-exsistence into this then are you using the 'some were more valiant than others' concept to justify a child's torture in this life? This is happening to millions of children each day - it is not a one off thing. What could they have possibly done so bad to in a prior life to deserve that? These are all things that I've brought up before. If your Post is not merely a passing comment and this Topic really interests you then please do read this whole Thread to get a gist of what I am saying.

Page 12 Killed and Abused Raped Children - Mormons

JB,

I am not sure how children's agency has anything to do with this? People do bad things because they choose to do it, and those bad things hurt people. The point that I made is that perhaps God does not have the ability stop people from making such bad choices that hurt others.

Perhaps. If I choose to abuse and kill my children than yes it was my agency that effects them. So unfortunately our lives quality and experiences are influenced and determined at times by others.

No I am not. I am not certain how you assume that this is what I was referring too. Being valiant in the pre-existence is more conjecture and speculation more than anything. I do not personally put much into that concept. I no not think ones valiant efforts afforded them anything in this life. I think that this idea has a lot of problems theologically. So I am not sure why this idea needs to be reconciled with this concept.

The best explanation that works for me is that people have the choice to do good and evil, and sometimes people choose evil that hurts and harms good innocent people. And for some reason, God can't force people to do good, but has to honor that agency. Therefore bad things happen and will continue to happen to children and innocent people every day.

This is the classic problem called theodicy. Personally there is no good answer, but I feel one bright spot in LDS theology is that we have the best answer for this.

Personally I am hesitant to sell God short in his ability to change lives. Just because some people may fall into this pattern themselves, does not mean that at some point God will not redeem them. Professionally I work with these people in the State prison system. I work in rehabilitating them. I have seen change with these people, and I have seen how their faith has changed their lives.

Like I said there is not clear answer. Life is messy, and it is full of Good and evil. Much of these terrible things, make no sense. But in my professional work, and in my life experiences, I have found that God seems to work in these people lives in ways that I do not fully understand.

Killed and Abused Raped Children - Mormons

Well, because you mentioned it, twice:

Now on to the rest of your points:

Then if that is true it means that the 'test' in this life is very lopsided because it favors some and the most vulnerable, children it disfavors.

That's right, most people try to explain away this BUT they simply do not know and tend to not say they don't know but instead try to give so many opinions about it. Again this brings me back to what has been brought up before - something so important an issue like this SHOULD have a clear definition - a real explanation. No one knows why children suffer everyday despite having all the 'truth' - sad.

Mormons - When Children Are Raped, Abused & Killed

I am posting this article here not to discuss the actual pedophile but to illustrate the vicious circle mentioned in this Thread:

Mormons - Children Raped Abused & Killed - Page 12

"There appears to be a plague of child abuse spreading across the world. Perhaps it has always been with us but has not received the attention it presently receives. I am glad there is a hue and cry going up against this terrible evil, too much of which is found among our own. Fathers, you cannot abuse your little ones without offending God. Any man involved in an incestuous relationship is unworthy to hold the priesthood. He is unworthy to hold membership in the Church and should be dealt with accordingly. Any man who beats or in other ways abuses his children will be held accountable before the great judge of us all. If there be any within the sound of my voice who are guilty of such practices, let them repent forthwith, make amends where possible, develop within themselves that discipline which can curb such evil practices, plead with the Lord for forgiveness, and resolve within their hearts henceforth to walk with clean hands."
-- Gordon B. Hinckley, The Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley

Mormons - Children Raped Abused & Killed Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 12

JB,
I suffered chronic childhood conditions that were often abusive and depraved, but certainly nowhere near the extreme degrees some have had to endure. I was fortunate that much of this stemmed from my mothers severe mental illness and stopped when I joined the church at 13 years of age. It took me many years to recover from this and is the reason I didn't enter the mission field until I was 23. I take two main things away from my experiences.
One quite honestly is rage. The fact that others suffer unjustly makes me hope and pray I'll be one of the destroying angels later on. Not kidding and I'd rather not open up that topic too much. The other thing is a deep and personal knowledge that God loves me, born out of suffering and miracles that bore me through bad situations. I felt the burning in my boosom when He answered my prayers and other miracles I might one day share in private.
The Spirit taught me His love is infinite. I have wondered why he does not intervene more, but it has come into my mind that he Can't. I have come to believe that is literal. There are boundaries / laws restricting his freedom of action. That is the ONLY way to reconcile infinite love & infinite power & innocent suffering. These children are NOT being punished at the hands of evil men for their premortal choices.
It has also given me some comfort to personally experience divine help in the midst of abuse. Jesus suffered with me, secretly eased my suffering, and helped me to forget it later. I know that doesn't mitigate what some have gone through, but I don't believe he ever truly leaves the innocent totally alone.