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The Worst Sinners

What is your opinion about this quote by Hugh Nibley:

Sinners Worst The

A most excellent quote and it reflects a lot about how I feel within some of these Threads where a straying Membership talks less of Christ and focuses more on ceremony, titles, myths, traditions and stereotypes.

A good example of this was something I was recently Discussing with my wife. In general terms, what is the difference between let's say a Christian that goes to a pentecostal church and a Mormon active each Sunday in Church? Well, if there needs to be a service related activity or being in charge of making sure the soup kitchen has helpers the pentecostal Christian may just go and help, but with the Mormon he / she must first be interviewed, called, given a title, have a meeting to plan a meeting about giving the service. Then someone to organize food and drinks at the activity. It then will be passed on the leadership for approval and on and on.

The Worst Sinners Studies Doctrine Mormon

Though generalizations are often accurate, they are not universal. Not every member of the church who believes how they personally dress is important or who believes that it is necessary to act certain ways is a sinner.

I agree with you that there are some members who may not have the right spirit. There are those who view appearances as the primary motivator for good works. I think that this is part of the human condition that certain people have to overcome. But I do not think these individuals should be considered "worse sinners" then any other individual with any other Human weaknesses.

I believe Christ was indicating that someone who had a personal weakness of the flesh (such as the woman who was taken in adultery) was often closer to repentance then the Pharisee who thought, because of his station, was beyond or above the saving power of the atonement (as viewed in the law of Moses). He did not indicate that one's sins were better or worse then another. I believe the New Testament more clearly indicates that one was closer to having the humility to cast off his sins and come unto Christ.

But the fact was, both had need of repentance, and both were guilty of grievous sins, but one was humbled by his or her circumstance and the other was hardened because of his station.
Consider the words of Christ in
Luke 17:3

Christ rebuked the Pharisees and the hypocritical followers of the Law of Moses out of love for them, not because he hated them and wanted them to be damned. They were his kin, his fellow Jew, and he was deeply interested in their salvation. I am confident that if they would have turned to him, he would have embraced them with open arms regardless of their previous offenses.

I am sure there are cases of modern day Pharisees in the Church, but I am not sure we would be able to distinguish who they were. Nor am I sure that we have the knowledge of the inner soul to determine if they were any more of a sinner (as brother Nibley seems to be indicating) then the man who declares no piety and lives as he pleases. Compassion, in my opinion, should be given to both, as both are in need of repentance.

Rather off topic, but... I had trouble with this topic, as I agree with many of the points being made. Some members do not focus on Christ and it distracts from the primary goal that we should have of full discipleship. I also believe that we are all on differing levels of understanding in the Gospel and some have not progressed past the Law of Moses type mentality to only focus on processes and blind obedience, rather then principles and active faithfulness. I hope that I am not stuck in the former group, but I suspect there are times that I slip into that category. I am working on it.

Sinners Worst The

I think that Bro. Nibley was trying to point out that over the last century or so we have taken upon ourselves more and more of the attitudes of Babylon. One good example is the idea that if you are not wearing a white shirt and acceptable tie, you cannot bless or pass the sacrament.

A few months ago, while I was 2nd Counselor in the Bishopric, we had a young man come to church wearing a very nice blue shirt. The thing is, this young man's family rarely came to church, and I couldn't remember him ever coming since he received the Aaronic Priesthood.

The Bishop leaned over to me and asked what I thought about having the young man pass the sacrament. Of course, he knew how I feel about such things, so probably knew what my answer would be. I stated that I thought it would be very wrong to deny the young man the opportunity to experience that action.

Of course, if our Stake President of the time had been there, things would probably have been different. He stated, constantly, that the wearing of a white shirt and tie was essential to righteousness.

The main point that I get from Bro. Nibley is that our focus is almost entirely on outward things. Word of Wisdom, hair length and style, what clothes we wear, how many meetings we attend, etc.

Sinners Worst The

Well actually notice what Nibley says...

I believe he was getting at something seen acceptable by everyone. In other words, this is how I see it... Hollywood in lowest terms of its sex and profanity may not be acceptable in the Middle East but money is. US Las Vegas Casinos may not do well in China with all the sin it entails but money does. In other words being rich, pride and having money is the universal canker that has also infected those who wish to follow or who say they wish to follow the Gospel. Isn't the Book of Mormon the number one reminder of being puffed up, riches and the need for repentance? The Book of Mormon actually hints that its better not to be rich because you are more likely to be humble. Even Paul advocates the love of the same is the root of ALL evil. Money brings out the WORST in people. Let's be honest here. Someone looking scruffy or not the traditional looking Mormon will not be the most regarded or even the most attended to, but the one dressed properly and with a title gets all the smiles and the "How do you do...." If you are the typical Molly Mormon or Peter Priesthood you will be accepted but ask too many questions and you will be looked on as an apostate, are drifter, someone to be avoided - a sinner.

The Worst Sinners

I disagree with Brother Nibley's assessment of what Jesus believes. I believe it is only his opinion, and holds little doctrinal weight.


I refer to Joseph Smith, who clearly stated that the worst sin according to the Savior was the unpardonable sin against the Holy Ghost.

Hugh Nibley, in decrying the sin of pride and vanity (serious sins indeed), is using hyperbole to express his opinion. Jesus paid for the repentant person of vanity and pride, as he did the adulterer and the whoremonger. Everyone needs repentance, regardless of their station, or their sin. It is up to us to do so, without comparing the severity of our own sins to that of others.

Rather off topic, but... Sin is sin, and we need to refrain from it and seek redemption from it. or as Joseph Smith declared in the conclusion of the King Follet sermon. QUOTE Hear it, all ye ends of the earth -all ye priests, all ye sinners, and all men. Repent! Repent! Obey the gospel. If a man does this surely he is justified.

If a man does this surely he is justified.

The Worst Sinners

Is this quote really meant for us to focus on which of the worst sins we can find or is the point being missed? This is like going on about did he say "Thus Saith The Lord or not..." The interesting thing is this... Both 'sets' of sins lead to something similar: the turning away of those who seek Truth from the Truth. In other words the sins that affect you personally are not the worst, its the ones that gives you the aura of being Truth when you are not. The Book of Mormon reveals this as priescraft - those who give a front if you will that they are all for the Lord and His work, but actually they are just for themselves.

The Worst Sinners Mormon Doctrine Studies

I understand where you are coming from a little bit better.

I think what you are saying that it is easier to repent of personal sins, then it is for the sinner who practices priestcrafts and the like, because the personal sinner happens to see his own depravity. A prideful person who thinks he can do no wrong is much farther from the redemptive power of the Savior, because he sees no need for repentance.

I think this is what you are saying, or that is how I am interpreting it.