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Morals / Standards During Survival

Morals / Standards During Survival

Do you believe it is permissible to give up some if not most of your Morals / Standards During Survival situations where war, hunger, or savagery may be around you?

Survival Standards Morals

Depends on the situation.

Would I kill a child who had a gun to my wifes head? Yes, without a second thought.

Would I use torture to save my family's life if I believed that it was the only way? Yes.

Would I lie to save a loved one (example: Christian lying to the SS in World War II to save Jews who were hiding in his Barn)? I hope I would.

All of these situations seem to be ones where I am breaking a moral law that I have taken upon myself not to cross (not killing, not inflicting harm on another human being, and not lying.)

One might argue that these breaches in the law may be moral to save the life of an innocent, rather then keeping the law to the letter and letting someone die.

I suppose I am using situational ethics, but I believe every law has a situation where it may have to be broken to fulfill a higher law.

Morals / Standards During Survival Studies Doctrine Mormon

Listen to me when a person is in survival mode the morals and standards are gone you know what am I saying? Its not even a concious act but that part of the brain shuts down....how do you guys think people end up eating people and so on in extreme situations because they wanted? No survival mode makes you a beast and you're willing to do whatever it takes to live....

Survival Standards Morals

We were placed on earth to survive. Even in the worst of situations, the worst thing we can do is give up. So, I agree. I think that if it is to survive, or to preserve your life and your loved ones, it is actually immoral not to do what you have to do. (like dbackers examples) We gotta do it, it's part of our learning, I think we were placed on earth to go thru these experiences and to survive for as long as we physically can.
Obviously, during survival mode, there is room for corruption and abuse. So, I think that the most important thing would be to pray and ask for Heavenly Father's guide.

Survival Standards Morals

For me, morals and standards can be hard to define.

I realize that we are taught that deciding our actions before the situation arises is beneficial or necessary to retaining personal worthiness. However, my opinion is that imagining all possible scenarios, and thinking through all possible motivations, and arriving at all possible conclusions, would be overly time consuming if not impossible. Also, as I understand it, we are not in the end judged by our morals or standards, but by our actions, or what our actions would have been. Morals and standards are simply our tools in making appropriate actions.

As such, I wanted to look at this question through a specific rubric: Which of the Ten Commandments would you be willing to break to save your child or your spouse "During Survival situations where war, hunger, or savagery may be around you?"

I realize that the Ten Commandments may not be the most important guide to our actions, but I can think of no clearer nor useful rubric in this particular situation. the Ten Commandments are as follows: (Mosiah 13)

1. I can't imagine how this commandment would apply to our situation, so I am going to pass it by. But, I suppose that their might be some relevance to this one through #2.

2. I think that the answer 'ought' to be no, but I think that my personal answer might be yes. Bowing down to a graven image might seem so harmless at the time, especially if your family is in danger, but what message does this send to a child? That worshiping God is only something to be done when convenient? Or that God only has power to save when bad things aren't happening? It might depend on the child, but a young impressionable one might be better served being killed, than see their parent bow down to an idol. That might be what is meant when he explains that the "iniquities of the fathers [are visited] upon the children."

3. Well, Peter did it by cursing, just before the crucifixion, but the jury is still out on whether he was obeying the command of the Lord, or being a fool. However, I think that this situation would likely be closer to Balaam's than Peter's: Would we be willing to use the Priesthood to curse or bless someone contrary to the will of God, to save our family? I wouldn't. I don't really have a good argument here why no one should, but I wouldn't.

4. My answer is yes, I would break this commandment for my family. I would work on Sunday, I would cause them to work on Sunday, I would cause others to work on Sunday, I would be willing to work less than 6 days the rest of the week, and I would even be willing, in a horrible situation, to not 'hollow' Sunday, or set it apart or make it different in any way. It would be painful and difficult, but I would break this commandment. Mind you, I am not using the argument that 'the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath', and interpreting that Sabbath worship is only valuable when convenient. It remains a commandment. I am simply saying that taking care of my wife and son would be more important to me, perhaps because I don't understand the importance of the commandment, or because the commandment for me has been only a conduit for blessings, and never (to my knowledge) a way through which I was cursed.

5. This one is difficult. I can't really think of a situation where, while doing anything and everything in my power to save my wife or my son, it could possibly dishonor my parents. Now, there have been situations where I have disobeyed my parents, like when they asked me not to tithe, go to church, go on a mission, or serve in any callings, but disobedience can be done with honor. So, even if they were the ones causing or permitting the danger to my family, saving my family would still be honoring my parents. Perhaps someone can think of a situation...?

6. Good examples and reasonings for breaking this commandment have already been given here, and given in scripture. I see no reason to elaborate.

7. This one is interesting. I mean, James Bond has to do it every other year to save the world from some sort of disaster. But, since he is not in scripture (being a fictional character, I am told?), I can't base my actions on my [W]hat [W]ould [J]ames Bond [D]o bracelet...

Seriously, though, my wife would prefer to be killed or raped than to know that I willingly committed adultery. And, since I know what a horrible thing adultery and unchastity is for a person, I would not set that example for my child in order to save them. It wouldn't save them. In a world where adultery and unchastity is necessary for survival, I would prefer my family die. And I think that Genesis 19 shows that God is in agreement with me.

8. Yes, I would. I would feel bad, but I would steal. I don't have any good scriptural backing for this. My course of action might be very wrong. But I would steal. Now, hopefully I would try to work together with other people to share resources ("Do you want to form an Alliance with me?" "Absolutely, I do!") before I would consider stealing from them, but fear would probably even preclude that.

9. Lying in general, as has been stated here, and as was shown to us through example by Abraham, seems acceptable. However, this commandment seems to be more specific to me. The question here is, Would I lie about my neighbor so that they were killed instead of my family? Say if a mob were looking for witches, and they were told that my wife were one, and the only way to save her was to say that my neighbor was the real witch... That, I don't know. This is by far the most difficult. I just don't know what I would do.

10. Again, I don't see how this commandment would apply to our situation. I mean, you might covet your neighbor's situation if you had this situation, and they didn't, but it makes no difference to your family's safety or happiness.


So, maybe the 10 commandments weren't the best place to start, being only 70% relevant to our current topic. If anyone has a more relevant way of looking at this, please post.

Also, I must reiterate, that the question I was answering was what would _I_ do. Not what everyone _should_ do. The original question was framed such that either could be the meaning, but I chose the easy route. Others may now take my logic, and use it in an argument as to what everyone else _should_ do. I am simply not equipped to answer such a question.

By the way, if I remember my history correctly, the Donner party, to which SuzieSu I assume was referring, only ate the people after they died. While quite icky, eating raw meat, especially the meat of people you were talking to and cared for a few hours before, I see no moral or ethical problem with it. It is kind of like being an organ donor, but much more icky. But maybe I am missing something.

Message Edited... Persephone: Please use the Quote Tags here. When you do not use these tags source material that is not your own may appear to be yours when it is not. See our Constructive Posting Policy.

Morals / Standards During Survival

Hi ecawilson the point I was trying to make was that when you're in survival mode you do things that you think you would never do if you was placed in such situation you know what am I saying? Not because you can or cannot but because you're kind of re-programed and that part of the brain that deals with moral issues etc is literally shut down. Basically you're not yourself.

Morals / Standards Survival

Oh, Ok. I guess I didn't get it, because I would totally eat a person if I were starving and they had already died.

However, I am of the opinion that 'survival mode' does not change a person. Perhaps you think less, but your habits, your priorities, and your abilities remain. A person who prays regularly, I think, would still pray in 'survival mode'. The person who doesn't, well, they might, but not as readily. My opinion is that "that part of the brain" still functions just fine, but is relegated to a position of lower priority. But, I have no data...

Edited: ecawilson on 20th Aug, 2009 - 5:23am

Morals / Standards Survival Mormon Doctrine Studies

Depending on exactly what situation you are in you might go insane and do things that you wouldn't if you had your sanity. If you're in severe hunger then your brain actually functions differently with only primal insticts being kept in place. I saw that on a National Geographic show. You really don't know what you will do, I don't know what I'd do either. I hope I keep some kind of standard but you know...