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Are People Born Gay Or Gay By Choice? - Page 14

From a scientific point that may be a good observation, however we would have to examine if there are creatures in the animal kingdom that also have this natural behavior of 'self-destructing'? What would be the ratio of this.

I do not know if it is really on the rise as much as most gays are coming into the public eye about it since one's sexuality is often publicized and encouraged by the media.

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Actually JB there have been studies done on lab rats that produced results like that. My wife studied it in a class back in 1995 when she was taking law and security classes. They dropped rats in a room and all was good till the rats were over populated and food also might have been limited resulting n male rats trying to mate with other male rats. Also loads of fighting and killing broke out.

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That is a controlled environment though and like human prisons rats will attack rats. What about animals in the natural environment.

Page 14 Choice Gay Gay Born People Are

JB you said that

And I agree that at its most basic it is but human beings are complex creatures and the bonding elements of sex are just as important. Also, you're purely biological approach misses the fact that sex and sexuality can often be used within society as symbols. For example chastity once (and perhaps still today for some) proscribed a women of virtue and certian types of sexual activity have more societal approval than others so that those who engage in those disapproved practices are judged for them. What I'm trying to get at is that though sex may be seen as simple from the point of view of genes and evolution, we as a group of human societies layer it with complications.

Yes, if the entire population were so but it is clear that they are not and I believe it unlikely they will become so. My brother is straight and wants eventually to have children so the family line will continue through him no doubt. My genes may not go forward but my family's will and I think at a purely genetic level thats fine because my family genes don't care about me as an individual. They are driven to replication by natural processes.

Really? I am not so sure about that. Look at the world, human beings are riddled with different genetic complcations that simply don't make sense. People are born sterile, blind, deaf, unable to walk, inter-sexed, with brittle bone diseases, with one lung...etc...etc...Hospitals exisit because the human body is not born perfect and problems of one sort or another affect millions. My being gay may be, in purely scientific terms, a genetic blip but such blips happen all the time.

This comment and the ones you made in the previous paragraph regarding my lack of children and grand children indicate to me that you still consider that at some point in my teenage years I had a choice to make and I chose to be gay. I will state quite simply that I did not. You want to know what the boys had that the girls didn't but I could turn the question around and ask you the same question about your attraction to women. You will probably think: that is not the same; but I believe it is. You percieve heterosexuality as normal and anything else as inexplicable but I want you to consider for just one moment the possibilty that my sexual development was exactly the same as yours but in the other direction. Did you have to make a choice between men and women or was it simply, as it was for me, your hormones and emotions that led you? Did you need to rationalise your attraction to women or, as I experienced, did it just come naturally?

I can't say why I'm gay I can only say that I am.

This is interesting. I had never thought about that before but perhaps it is a "natural" reason for something people can often perceive as unnatural. Is nature as calculating as that though? How aware and intelligent are natural processes? Actually, I've just had a thought that might answer my own questions. There is, I believe, a type of frog that in a situation where all the members of its group are of the one sex that some of them will alter their sex in order to reproduce. So maybe natural processes can achieve these things.

Message Edited... LDS_forever: I fixed your quote tags.

Edited: LDS_forever on 15th Dec, 2007 - 5:36pm

Choice Gay Gay Born People Are

More I research about it, I am inclined to think that in some cases it seems to be genetics, how otherwise do we explain that within the animal kingdom homosexuality also exists? Were animals sexually abused or able to make a choice? Now I am not saying this applies to ALL cases but it seems to be that it is possible in some.

Are People Born Gay Or Gay By Choice?

I would argue it is more likely to be that the majority of all sexualities (gay, straight, bi-sexual and everything in between) have their foundations at a genetic level. It doesn't mean emotions aren't important but I think they are a reaction to more hidden motivations within the body.

Are People Born Gay Gay Choice - Page 14

I have never understood why people have to tell other people what goes on behind closed doors.
I have had several very close friends that are gay and even worked for a gay hairdresser for 2 years. He had problems with his sexuality and even married a woman for 2 years to try to come to terms and to be more accepted to the community but I knew it wouldn't last and it didn't.
I believe that people are trying to be accepted weather gay or "straight"

I think that what happens behind the bedroom doors should stay behind the door. Do you go around telling people that you are straight? I think not so why go around telling people that you like the same sex as yourself?

I normally would not do this but for the sake of what I wrote I am a 48 year old woman who is very much in love with a 50 year old man and plan on getting remarried, I was married for 23 years and kind of hesitant to remarry, but I really do believe that what goes on behind closed doors should stay there.....

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I don't meet strangers on the bus and say, oh by the way I'm gay. Its not something I cry from the roof tops either. However, in conversation I might mention I have a boyfriend or a partner because it's relevant to the conversation; such as if someone asks: "are you seeing anybody?" It's also simply a part of being truthful and sharing life stories. If I'm making new friends or whatever, I talk about my boyfriend the same way some people might mention their husband or their girlfriend. Its just life. And I bring it up in this thread because I felt it important to state where I was coming from and why I felt I had valid contribution to this debate.

The issue for gay people is that, taking the long view, we were in a situation not so long ago were we had to keep quiet because there was legal sanction against us and major societal disapproval. Freedom from that is something to cherish and such recent history teaches us how repressive a life without it can be.

There is a quote from feminist literature that states that "the personal is the political" that meant personal relationships between men and women as well as the social situations they found themselves in reflected wider social realities of male dominance and so on. I think the same is true of gay people. It is impossible for gay people to change the status quo and gain further equality without our highlighting the nature of the personal situations we are involved in that show a wider social inequality. So, in the campaign for Civil Partnerships in the UK (which were introduced in 2004) personal stories of problems caused for gay couples because there was no legal recognition of their partnership (tax issues, property ownership, next of kin and pension benefits and so on) could be used to show there was a major gap in the legal framework of the country. Stories of people being harassed or fired from work because they were gay highlights not just prejudice but perhaps the need for new laws or guidelines to attack such problems. And so it goes on.