Related Information to Are People Born Gay Or Gay By Choice?

Are People Born Gay Or Gay By Choice? - Page 11

I am going to throw the religion card, because I can do that. HAHAHA

God is love right, in any religion, love is approved by God, (I use God to name all gods, not just the Christian one.) Lust is evil, right so who is to say that when a man loves another man, it is wrong. Love is holy. It doesn't matter who you love.

The guy reading over my shoulder says, "I am all for homosexuality as long as both chicks are hot."

Choice Gay Gay Born People Are

~_- Have to do two posts. Poo. *Curses! Other half cut off. Will post later.*
The natural order bears watch, however much people want to try to circumvent it. In the example of the toads and lizards, you also have an entirely different set of situations there. Your average animal operates the same as a human, but their cycles are sped up and the general systems involved are reletively less complex and prone to easier change. Humans haven't see that significant of a change in a LONG time. We have subtle differences that increase average height, weight, and physical capacity, but for a trait to become dominant it has to appear first. The changes in animals also occured because of a neccesity, those who carried the trait more commonly survived to reproduce.
And the interesting thing is, from a discussion standpoint, is that the people I talk to who hold the world began millions of years ago and we evolved from lower forms also like to hold the genetic belief on homosexuality. Given the advance of humanity, were homosexuality purely a genetic thing it would have died out already, as the early animals who would become us died not being interested in the opposite gender to reproduce.
Aside from the asexual animals, most of the other animal citings of "natural" homosexual tendencies I have seen and read take into account the sexual situations as an act. Psychology has shown, however, that sex is generally more than a simple act, it is a gesture with a number of overtones, including domination. Among humans we see that with rapists: the act isn't about the act, its about what the act means to the people involved. The animal cultures examined are very interactive groups (mostly a variety of monkeys and chimps), of which there is a clear Alpha leader, part of which can include forcing itself on another to establish said pecking order. To say that establishes a clear record of homosexual preferences is a misleading assesment from the data. When examing data, you always need to consider the source. A group determined on showing something to be true or false can easily skew or misrepresent the data to imply their desired conclusion. In this world today you have to be especially careful of that, as there are few unbiased sources.

Another area to touch on is to look at our own societal histories. When and where do we see the most prevalent homosexual references? I don't really think its much coincidence to see it either at the ranks of rulers and nobility or in societies at the height of their decadence and revelry. Those who would note exceptions in sexual cults or similar rituals should also note that most of those also emphasized the aforementioned decadence and revelry, though possibly not the same material decadence as the societies. Regarding specifically the cults, several also appealed to, and took advantage of, the wealthy's boredom or interest something new.
In Rome, it wasn't uncommon for lords or ladies to take a fancy to another man or woman, and among the soldiers it was encouraged the men take their frustrations out on livestock or each other to reduce the sheer amount of aggression taken out on captives. In the Greek culture, female affections were seen as natural and encouraged, hence the term Lesbian, coming from the stories about the island of Lesbos in the Mediterranean. Among the samurai groups suspicious of outsiders there are records of those preferring the company of an honorable man than the supposed deception of a woman. Greek and Rome were equivalents to the whole of the West now in relation to the rest of the world: relatively secure, relatively educated, highly speculative, and interested in leaving the "archaic" past behind them in favor of a bold new tomorrow. Among those societies, interest in those of the same sex was a generally occurring practice.

Edited: daMoose on 21st Dec, 2005 - 8:41pm

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Very nice post you got there, daMoose. Very nice indeed.

I think homosexuality has roots in both sides of the question: a person might show genetical disposition to be homosexual, but it needs a liberal and tolerant education for that aspect to be shown. From what I've learnt in Phylosophy, last year, I understand that, for a person's character to form, it takes both genetical disposition and a concording education. Take, for example, a great car-racer: now, he was born with both the physical and mental capacities to drive a car really fast, but if he was born in, say, Itiopia, it would have been extremely hard for him to actually get to driving cars, since, assuming he'd survive the first years of his life, he would've likely been taught how to work in a farm and all that.

Bottomline is: you can't blame the extremes, as they are very seldom right. I don't think you can say it's all due to genetics because, with the correct education and given the right circumstances, it can be negated, and you can't say it's just education because you can't just make a person like something she doesn't by saying so.

I'm fine with gay people, I am. The only time I don't like them is when they actually act all "extravaganza" and act like bent rubber bands. I mean, I've known a few gay people in my life, and I can tell you none of them are like TV and other media depict them. I wouldn't even have guessed they were gay if they hadn't told me.

So, my motto for the day is: Live and let live.

Page 11 Choice Gay Gay Born People Are

Ok this is a topic that I feel strongly about. If these people made "a conscious Decision" to be gay, then that would mean that any straight person could make.

During a debate about biological weapons in school about a week ago, Someone brought up something about gay people, I don't remember what they said, but one thing someone said stuck in my mind. "Homosexuality doesn't have anything to do with genetics, its a choice." I just sat down, there was no use in arguing, again. but thats for a different thread.

I still stick with my first thought, that if its a choice a select few can make, then everyone should be able to make it, otherwise there would be another factor in the equation.

Choice Gay Gay Born People Are

Taking into account, what gay people should go through sometimes and how little respect and understanding they normally get from the society, it hardly could be a choice.
Who'd like to put a stigma on himself, to willingly make himself an outcast?

Of course, there are situations when being gay is somewhat of "requirement" or fashionable like in some areas (entertainment, for instance. Not a requirement, of course, but gives a certain touch to a person).
These people might simply act to attract more attention to themselves.

But being a born gay is if you are a sensitive type a heavy cross you have to carry with you all your life. No one would fake it or make a conscious choice of it.

There is nothing horrible in gay love, as it seems to me. The Mother Nature didn't mean it like this, it's true, but exceptions happen.
Love is better than hostility and if two people feel good with each other, what public opinion has to do with it, indeed.

Are People Born Gay Or Gay By Choice?

My brother who is gay says he was born that way and there is nothing that he can do for being the way he is. I flat out disagree, I don't believe that God created someone who would go contrary to his own rules. I believe that it is a conscience decision that we all make as we grow up.

Are People Born Gay Gay Choice - Page 11

I love this argument because you can be born gay without ever touching the genetics debate. Its not genetic to prefer skinning red heads, or large bernets, or hour glass blondes, its just your preference. Being gay is much like that. Most people who end up being gay say they wrestled AGAINST those feelings their entire life. Take for instance the recently fallen pastor Ted Haggard who said he had dealt with this side of him self for years? I wonder how he feels about being born gay? I personally have heard how he feels, and its rather hypocritical. That aside, he was not abused as a child, by his own words about his life in his book. As well, he has grown up in a christian home all his life, so he knew it was wrong in the eyes of god before he was even old enough to determine his sexual preference. So then, how can he have wrestled with something he knew was wrong his whole life? Do straight men normally have problems with thoughts and attractions to other men? No, they don't only gay men do. The only people who struggle with homosexual thoughts are people who have been told that it is unnatural, sinful, and wrong, but none the less, they have those thoughts. If it didn't come from trauma, liberal teaching about homosexuality, or chosen life style (which he didn't he has a wife and kids), then where does it come from? One place, his brain, he was born like that.

It has also been said that homosexuality is not natural and doesn't happen in nature. Well, thats just an incorrect statement. Homosexual behaviors and even homosexual sex take place in nature among a variety of animals.

Whats more, there are actual a pair of penguins who not only prefer just each other in every way including sexually, but they ignore all other females for mates.

Six years of nature showing us what is really natural and what is not. In fact, have only one partner in your lifetime is also not natural according to the natural world. We can see what is natural and what is not by looking at the world. Without religion, there is nothing nasty, wrong, sinful, or unnatural about homosexuality.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20..._gayanimal.html

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In my opinion...
1) I believe that marriage should be the province of religion and personal preference, not of government. Let each religious group decide for themselves whether or not gay marriage is acceptable to them and if people want to create legally binding contracts similar to that which we now call "marriage", let them do that as well, regardless of their sexes.

2) There should be no distinction between gay and straight people in any legal matter, so yes they should be allowed to adopt.

3) Studies have shown that the only statistically significant difference between children raised by straight parents and children raised by gay parents is that children of gay parents are more likely to experience negative reactions from others due to homophobia regarding their parents.

Rather off topic, but... I do not have a study to cite for this, so take it with a grain of salt. I got my information second hand from the "Family Values" episode of Penn & Teller: ******.

4) It is definitely not normal for men to act like women or women to act like men, otherwise the phrases "act like women" and "act like men" would be switched in their meanings. It is, however, also not wrong in any way.

5) I agree with a previous poster in that it should be treated in the same category as race and religion on forms.

6) I would feel no more uncomfortable changing in front of a gay guy than in front of a straight guy, but I am uncomfortable changing in front of anyone because of certain personal body image problems.

7) The military's current policy regarding gay people, as far as I know (I.e. "don't ask don't tell") is perfectly fine by me.

I believe that the main point of Gay Pride celebrations is to communicate the message that gay people do not have to be ashamed of their sexual orientation. Taking the cue from feminism (and I would speculate that it follows the civil rights movement as well, though I know very little detail about the civil rights movement), they demonstrate that you don't need to be ashamed by taking it to the opposite extreme - pride. I can't excuse this extreme, but I think the apparent purpose of removing unnecessary shame is a good one.

Not quite. While it is true that one can't change their DNA, you can change the way in which it is expressed. Many genes in everybody's systems are inactive (I.e. not being read for protein construction) at any given times. Social, environmental and psychological factors all have intricate influences on the activity or inactivity of genes, which determines the presence and concentrations of every protein in your body, which in turn influence your thoughts, feelings, physical characteristics and tendencies.

Rather off topic, but... QUOTE (LDS_forever) Is that so?, I cannot understand it. There is a thread about bisexuality in the Mature discussion. I would like to read your opinion on the matter since you define yourself as "bisexual". Thanks. My apologies for the nested quote, but I found it relevant. I had a friend several years ago who identified as lesbian, was attracted to women and, for the most part, not to men. She had a regular boyfriend who is the only man she's ever been attracted to, but despite being attracted to a man, she still decided to honour the overarching trends of her preferences and still identify as lesbian.

One thing I've noticed is that many people in this discussion seem to be assuming that there is a clear divide between gay and straight. What is actually the case is that gay/straight/bi is a matter of drawing dividing lines without grey areas and therefore we will always find examples which don't fit cleanly into any particular category.

I would like to make it clear where my opinions come from before I state them. I know very few gay people, but I have a lot of friends who are bisexual in addition to being bisexual myself. I have experienced no physical or sexual abuse and my parents have always been wonderful, caring people. I did experience some psychological abuse from classmates in elementary school, which has certainly had effect on me, but I don't believe it has affected by sexual preferences.

I believe that, weighting pressures from society, religion and culture, people naturally have no sexual preferences with respect to gender, simply an innate desire to have sex. There may be hormonal and genetic traits which influence the probabilities for particular tendencies or preferences to manifest.
Ultimately, however, I believe it is a choice... insomuch as anything is a choice. Every choice we make be it moral, psychological, behavioural, verbal, spiritual or meaningless in influenced by our personality and our mental state which have been brought to their current state by interactions between our internal neuro-electrical state, protein balances and social, religious, familial and cultural pressures. Since our personality is constructed from so many widely differing, complex and interacting trends, it is essentially impossible to predict what a person's choices will be, though.

Under the realization that every choice we ever make is influenced by social, psychological, religious, cultural, hormonal, environmental and genetic factors in varying degrees, I believe that sexual preference is a choice. It certainly feels like a choice to me, but that's just introspection.

Some of you will notice that I haven't addressed any issues regarding falling in love with someone, only sexual attraction. This is because I believe that these two concepts are very separate. While I do acknowledge that people do have tendencies regarding sexual attraction, I do not believe that anyone really has gender-oriented tendencies regarding love - I just believe it's sometimes given a different name when it isn't accompanied by sexual attraction. To use the Greek terms, eros (romantic love and sexual attraction) can show gender preferences, philos (friendship or comradeship; deep caring) does not show gender preferences excepting cases where preferences for personality traits have the secondary result of imbalancing gender representations in groups of friends and agape does not show preferences of any kind.

Message Edited... JB: Sexual details is not necessary and is left for the Mature Boards, please keep it general as this all Public.

My apologies for the nested quote, but I found it relevant. I had a friend several years ago who identified as lesbian, was attracted to women and, for the most part, not to men. She had a regular boyfriend who is the only man she's ever been attracted to, but despite being attracted to a man, she still decided to honour the overarching trends of her preferences and still identify as lesbian.