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Apostolic Succession

I read something today that made me think. I'm trying to figure out how the whole "senior apostle" becomes the new prophet after one dies come from because the scriptures certainly make no mention of it. What the scripture tell us (D&C 107) is that the quorum of the Twelve have as much power as the first presidency and they're in charge of running the church (doesnt even mention anything about whether the prophet is dead or the first presidency dissolved etc) you know what am I saying. The scripture even mention that the seventies have as much power as the quorum of the twelve as well so how come it is implied in the church that Apostles are over seventies? So who said hey I think we should put the senior apostle from now on as a prophet when one dies.... And before you tell me it was G-d I want you to show me your source and how the whole thing started because I aint finding it in the scriptures you know what am I saying?. All I'm finding so far is that it was Brigham Young (then the senior apostle) who proposed the whole apostolic succession to the rest of the quorum and made himself automatically the one to be chosen.

Edited: SuzieSu on 27th Aug, 2009 - 2:54pm

Succession Apostolic

You are correct. The only basis for the Senior Apostle to become Prophet is tradition. Brigham Young was clearly the correct choice, as such a huge number of people saw the "mantle" of the Prophet fall upon him. Yet it took 7 years for Brigham Young to accept the office of Prophet. Presidents Taylor and Woodruff both were reluctant to move directly into the office. I can not remember exactly which President immediately reorganized the First Presidency.

I think that discussion about how the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve took authority over the Seventy and the Patriarch belongs in the Mature LDS board. Of course, you can always contact me directly or ask me questions on my Rave topic.

Apostolic Succession Studies Doctrine Mormon

Well because actually the system set up in the church most during Joseph Smith's life was actually a Joined presidency. What this means is there was a Senior President, and a Jr President in the first presidency. When the Senior Prophet died everything would fall on to the Jr Preisdent, and he would call a new Jr. This way there was no break.

The problem is both Joseph Smith and Hyrmn both were killed, so both your Senior and Jr Preisdent died. Thats when Plan B moved in, and the 12 are really the new Head of the church and they appoint the new leader.

So why is the senior member of the 12 the next head of the church?

Institute manual here to help us.

Pretty much because the Quorum becomes the head of the church, it's really the President of that Quorum that is real head of the church, and thus the one that is called. So that would move the question to why is the Senior member of the Quorum of the 12 called as the head of twelve. Really as far as I know that isn't a calling as much as a position that you inherited, but its calling that is part of the 12.

The answer might be found here
Source 4

Succession Apostolic

By "junior president" you mean assistant president right?

What do you mean the 12 are the new head of the church thats what I'm trying to understand in d & c 107 says:

It doesnt say anything about the new head or when a prophet dies they become the new head and all that you know what am I saying? According to d&c the quorum of the 12 have been always equal in authority to the first presidency and was the body that run the church along with the first presidency.

Where is that in d&c? I want to know how the whole thing started because I havent found anything that states that Joseph Smith said the president of the quorum of the 12 automatically becomes the new prophet you know what am I saying?

Succession Apostolic

Yes

No not compeltly.

In the instatute manual that I posted they have a section titled "The Twelve Act Only under the Direction of the First Presidency"

I go in that section and find this scripture from 107:33

"The Twelve are a Traveling Presiding High Council, to officiate in the name of the Lord, under the direction of the Presidency of the Church, agreeable to the institution of heaven; to build up the church, and regulate all the affairs of the same in all nations, first unto the Gentiles and secondly unto the Jews"

They serve Under the Direction of the Presidency. When the prophet ties, the Quorum of the First Presidency is disovled and the 12 Apostles then become the governing Quorum. There isn't anything Higher then them when the First Presidency is desovled.

Not really. I wish I could help more. Read the Instatute manual. They don't quote any specific scripture to answer this. They just quote the teachings of prophets about how things have been set up.
Then again not all revelations are in the D&C.

Apostolic Succession

Thanks tubaloth. I read the link you provided but doesnt answer the question. Its almost like the reason is more one of policy than revelation you know what am I saying? Which I would like to find out more.

Apostolic Succession

You are right. It is simply a policy. It is a tradition. Most thoughtful teachers, when asked where this is specified in scripture will state something to the effect that if God wants someone else to be called as Prophet, He will make it known to the President of the Quorum of the Twelve.

So, then, the only question is whether or not the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is receiving revelation.

Brigham Young waited seven years before organizing the First Presidency, as he wanted to ensure that the Lord did not have someone else in mind. I cannot remember which President reorganized the First President right away, without spending a significant amount of time seeking out the Lord's will on the matter. Somewhere along the way, the attitude has come that the Lord will arrange things so that the man He wants as President of the Church will be the President of the Quorum of the Twelve at that time.

Apostolic Succession Mormon Doctrine Studies

I guess my question ok whether is a policy or tradition or revelation where is that written? I mean we must have some sort of written backup for this you know what am I saying?