Related Information to Palestine vs. Israel

Palestine vs. Israel - Page 16

It works fine for me. In fact, I tried it again just now. Maybe you could try it later or refresh the page once it comes up blank. It really is interesting to read.

Israel vs Palestine

Yes, it works for me now, I should have refreshed. Here is the reason they say that children are used:

"There was speculation militant groups might be turning to children to fool the Israelis, who primarily watch for adult attackers. Children are easily recruited, because fighting Israel is almost a rite of passage here, analysts and residents said."

Palestine vs. Israel Judaism Studies

The bottom line is that the occupation by Israel is illegal. This brutal occupation has been going on for 38 years and we will not see peace in the Middle east until it ends.

What baffles me and probably most Canadians, is that the US could exercise the necessary economic pressure on the Sharon government to bring an end to the conflict. ( well at least the beginning of the end)

Page 16 Israel vs Palestine

Please explain why you think it is illegal. Are you speaking of the settlement areas or all of Israel? The settlement areas were taken as "spoils or war." This may not be popular, but I don't think it is illegal. They were attacked, they were not an invading force, but defending themselves after attack.

Before you jump all over me, I believe they need to do things quite differently from how they are doing them presently, but I am not sure their possession of the land is "illegal" even if it is unpalatable.

Edited: tenaheff on 6th Apr, 2004 - 7:20pm

Israel vs Palestine

Without getting into a great debate, it is safe to state, that based on international law as interpreted and applied by the various international/world bodies, the occupation of Palestine ie; land seized by Israel is illegal.
I will not get into defining what is total Israel but here is a short descreption of what makes of Palestine
a) as defined by Palestiniens
"Palestine, currently under occupation, is located on the East coast of the Miditerannean Sea, West of Jordan and to the south of Lebanon. The territory of Palestine covers around 10,435 square miles (almost same size as the state of Vermont in the USA - that is, pretty small.) [1]
Out of this territory, there are 10,163 square miles of land area. The rest is water: half of the area of the Dead Sea (al-BaHr al-Mayyit), Huleh Lake (BuHayrat al-Huuleh) which was dried by the occupation and Tiberias Lake (BuHayrat Tabariyyah) which is also known as the Sea of Galilee (BaHr al-jaliil)."

Reality as defined by international law which is land occupied by Israel we know as the West Bank and the Gaza Srip

Naturally, to accept my argument one must agree that international law prevails and secondly that Palestine exist.

Edited: MrB on 6th Apr, 2004 - 8:32pm

Palestine vs. Israel

Palestine doesn't exist. Never has in all of history. The lands you describe were part of Egypt and Jordan at the time of the 1967 invasion by those two countries, along with Syria. There is a Palestinian Arab state already in existence. It is called Jordan. All of the so-called Palestinians (who aren't) were Jordanians before the creation of Israel in 1948.

As for the international law you quote, the same "laws" could be applied to EVERY country in the world. Let's start with China, who illegally occupies Mongolia, Nepal, and other historic lands.

Let's look at Canada. You still occupy aboriginal lands illegally. France, Germany, Italy, Russia, India, Vietnam, Japan, all of them are MUCH more complicit, in that they have taken lands through offensive, not defensive action. And, yes, the US is also guilty of the same thing.

The only Palestinians ever referenced, anywhere, before 1967 were Jews. That includes in the Arab world. Palestinian was actually a term of contempt used to describe Jews whose ancesters had lived in the region since before the time of Christ.

Normally, throughout history, when one country has defeated another in war, especially when the other instigated the war, land has been the expected reparation. There was normally population shift after such wars. This is the only case in history where the victors have been expected to just roll over and let the losers have their way in all things. You are right. It is a little tiny bit of land. Arabs own over 90% of the land. Israel owns less than 10%. Let the "Palestinians live in their own countries. Jordan and Egypt.

Palestine vs. Israel - Page 16

Again, I must disagree. Your statement " Palestine doesn't exist. Never has in all of history" is not totally accurate. Several events in the last 10-12 years (contemporary history) have resulted in the formal recognition and acceptance of Palestinians as a "People" with the right to their own homeland/country ie the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. I'm sure many will dispute the validity of this fact and therefore refer them to one of those historic events, the 1993 Oslo Accord or Declaration of Principles. It should be note that Bill Clinton's Camp David 2000 Summit was based on the legitimate Declaration of Principles
(en.wikipidia.org/wiki/oslo_accords)

Palestine vs. Israel Studies Judaism - Page 16

So, in the last 10 or 12 years, some people, including President Clinton, have recognized the existence for the first time in history of an ancient people known as Palestinians. Is this what you are saying? So, what were they called before 12 years ago?

I can only reiterate what I have already said. Before 1967, they were known as Arabs. Before 1948, they were known as Transjordanians, because that was the country which they were subjects of (it was a kingdom, so they weren't citizens). The UN (high and mighty as it is), established two countries out of a wasteland, and called them Jordan and Israel. Israel was a tiny little country.

When Jordan, Syria, Egypt and other Arab nations invaded Israel with an army several times the size of Israel's entire population, the Arab nations all urged the Jordanian Arabs to flee the country, so that the Arab armies could raze the entire country with impunity. Unfortunately, this strategy didn't work, as the tiny Israeli army proceeded to kick the collective Arab butt. They thoroughly humiliated the Arab armies.

Well, what happened to all those Jordanian Arabs who had fled Israel? They tried to move to Jordan. Jordan wouldn't have them. They tried to move to Egypt. Egypt wouldn't have them. They tried to move to Syria. Syria wouldn't have them. So, the three countries, Jordan, Egypt, and Syria, set up refugee camps. They refused to allow the people to build permanent buildings in the respective national territories, refused to let the refugees get jobs or move away. They refused to allow them modern conveniences such as modern plumbing.

Then, in 1967, and again in 1973, those same three countries, along with contingents from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, and others, executed surprise attacks on Israel. In 1973, they did it on the holiest day of Judaism, Yom Kippur, hoping that the military people would all be so busy with their religious devotions, that the Arabs could conquer the country before the military could respond. Instead, Israel beat them back, took the Sinai, took the Suez canal, the Golan Heights, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip. They also took the holiest PLACE in Judaism, the Temple Mount. They immediately allowed the Arabs to regain control of the Temple Mount, as long as Jews were allowed to worship unmolested at the West Wall.

Under intense international pressure, Israel gave the Suez canal back to Egypt, and eventually gave back the Sinai penninsula. But they kept the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and Golan Heights.

So, what happened to the refugees? Israel offered to let them assimilate into Israel, as long as they would agree to be proper citizens. They rejected this idea, instead deciding to follow the EGYPTIAN terrorist, Yassar Arafat.

After 1973, they renamed themselves Palestinians. Before 1967, the only people ever referred to, anywhere in any literature, as Palestinians, were Palestinian Jews. That is, Jews who had survived in and around Jerusalem since long before the time of Christ.

As for the very name, Palestine, that comes from the description of the region by the Romans, named for the Philistines. It was never a country. It was never a people. It never even had its own Roman governor. It never existed except as a description of a region.

The "Palestinian" Arabs are Jordanians. They eat the same foods, read the same books, have the same religion and culture as the Jordanians. In fact, they are closer related culturally to the Jordanians than Alabamans are to Mississippians, or to put it in your terms, than Albertans are to people from Ontario. So, why do you want to support them in being someone else?

BTW, Israel offered to give them back the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Arafat refused, and started up this most recent round of violence in protest. It seems that those two small regions aren't sufficient. Only all of Israel is sufficient. When every Jew is dead, throughout the Middle East, then Arafat and the Palestinians (in general, not in particular) will be happy. There must be a FEW Palestinian Arabs who aren't rabidly anti-Jewish, but they seem to be few.

Just for your info - again - there is only one place in all of the Middle East, where a Palestinian is allowed to own property, own a business, or experience any degree of religious freedom. That place is Israel.

But it appears that anti-Jewish sentiments will always override cultural, economic, or even personal self-interest for the Arabs. They would rather push the boundaries until the Israelis finally strike back in force than consider a compromise. It will definitely be their end.