Related Information to Palestine vs. Israel

Palestine vs. Israel - Page 32

Arvhic,

There is a huge assumption within your reply, that I refuse to accept. Since 1967, Israel has not been occupying Palestinian territory! Israel took that territory from Jordan, Egypt, and Syria, after it was attacked by the surrounding countries! That land did NOT belong to the Palestinian Arabs. The Palestinian Arabs, IMO, should have been driven out of the territory, into Jordan (the true Palestinian Arab state). According to the UN mandate that created Israel, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank were part of Israel anyway. When Syria, Jordan, Egypt and others attacked Israel in 1967 and 1973, Israel soundly defeated them and took away their staging areas.

As for Mr. Sharon, there is a lot of dispute about his actions. He may be a war criminal. But the people who claim him to be a war criminal already show their bias against all of Israel. I am not here to defend or accuse any individuals.

I defend Israel's right to exist. I see that the people who are being elected in Palestine are dedicated to the total destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. Sharon's actions in giving up land to the Palestinians is encouraging terrorism, not reducing it.

Israel vs Palestine

Nighthawk,

Palestinian Arabs occupied the region in question well before the Israeli state was drawn up by the British led League of Nations. In fact the Arabs have controlled the whole region, including what is now known as Israel, for the majority of recorded history. It required mass immigration of jews to build the sort of population size Israel has today. So let's not bother with this historic debate because Palestinian Arabs have a far greater claim and affinity with that region.

Following the first Arab-Israeli War four UN-arranged armistice agreements between Israel and Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria were signed.

The small Gaza Strip was left under Egyptian control, and the West Bank was controlled by Jordan. This was signed BY Israel.

Israel (backed by the US) illegitimately attacked these regions as you mentioned in 1967. Without US backing they wouldn't have a hope. But Israel was never internationally recognised as the controlling power of these regions post-67. And as you are aware Jews make up a minority of the people who live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, despite their best efforts to populate the land with settlers.

If Israel was serious about controlling this land why are they erecting a wall and have so few people living there? This desperate bid by jewish extremists for a greater Israel is absolute nonsense. How can a race of people who have experienced the very worst ethnic cleansing in recorded history invade someone else's land through war and then try to colonise it? I will never understand this.

Nobody is denying Israel's right to exist. They have plenty of land, and prime land at that. But while you respect the right for Israel to exist, as I do, you can not ignore the right for the Palestinian people to have their own state. And it is not Jordan. The US and Israel are the only two countries in the world who have been consistently opposed to this, but even now it seems the US Administration is starting to see sense.

There is no doubt Sharon is a war criminal and he knows it. Nobody prepares a defence to war crimes if they have nothing to worry about.

My whole point is if these two communities, who are as bad as each other, can not live hand in hand, then they should both be given their own parcels of land for the sake of peace.

As for Sharon encouraging terrorism. The only terrorism he is encouraging by withdrawing settlers is from irate Jews. I am yet to work out Sharon's real motive for removing the settlers but you know that without this step there will never be peace. It is simply not an acceptable option in modern society for Israel to murder every Arab until there are none left in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Palestine vs. Israel Judaism Studies

In the late 1800s, there are lots of accounts of how Jerusalem was a small village of only a very few thousand people, with most of them Jews whose families had lived there for many generations. The entire region was a complete wasteland. Most of the Muslims who lived there had recently immigrated, from such places as Scotland, Eastern Europe, Northern Africa, etc. When Jews came into the region, the Arab landlords were thrilled to sell the land to them, as they considered it completely worthless. Eventually, those same Arab landlords who had SOLD the land, tried to take it back, because the Jews had improved it so much.

During the early 1900s, the Arab landlords began to push for more Arab immigration in order to overwhelm the Jews, so that they could steal the land back. The Jews wouldn't move.

So, let's talk about who should be on the land. The Jews improved the land, made the "desert bloom like a rose." The Arabs destroyed the land, and wanted to steal it back from the people to whom they had sold it.

In the months prior to June 1967, Syria had been bombarding civilian sites in Israel from the Golan Heights. Syria and Jordan had attempted to divert the Jordan River, in order to destroy Israel. On May 23, 1967, Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran, thus closing off one of Israels most vital ports. All of these things are acts of war. Then, add up the massive buildup of troops along the borders, Israel acted. So, yes, technically, Israel attacked Syria, Jordan, and Egypt forces.

They won the Six-Day War. Part of the spoils of that war was the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai Peninsula, and the Golan Heights. Usually, when a country WINS a war, especially when they are provoked into it, they are able to keep the spoils of that war.

Many people certainly ARE disputing Israel's right to exist. All of the Palestinian leadership, the Palestinian schools, the Arab governments, etc, all claim that Israel has absolutely no right to exist, anywhere. The avowed purpose of the Palestinian Authority has always been to push every Jew out of the Middle East.

As for terrorism, here are a couple of news articles.
https://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=47417
Palestinian election platforms: Terrorize Israel

https://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=47587
PA admits Jewish towns turned into 'training camps'

Page 32 Israel vs Palestine

It is a historical fact Arabs have been occupying and living in the region for the majority of recorded history. For several hundred years before WWI this was under the Ottoman empire. This isn't a fairytale, it is undisputable fact.

The overwhelming majority of people living in what was known as Palestine were Arabs until Israel was created and a mass immigration of Jews flocked to live there.

This certainly isn't my understanding of the history. Could you please find me the source of this claim.

Nobody is denying there wasn't Jews living there at all. There have been accounts of Jews living there for ages. But to say they were a significant proportion of the population is simply not true. They were very much a minority.

But they weren't acts of war. They were acts of provocation, not war. And Israel's response was a pre-emptive invasion, not a declaration of war. When Israel approached the US for formal support President Johnson said they couldn't corroborate Israel claims that Egypt wanted to attack them. But of course, Israel invaded at any rate and the US supported them unofficially.

Because this was a pre-emptive invasion, and not war, it was illegitimate. Just like the current Iraq debacle. You can't just walk into a sovereign country, overpower it with your military might and then claim rule.

Yet again this is a gross exaggeration. The majority of Palestinians just want the West Bank and Gaza Strip. They are not stupid, they know Israel's parent country the US won't let them have any more. These claims they want Israel only ever come out of Israel or the US. It is simply rubbish. Sure there are extremist groups who think otherwise, but they are not representative of the Palestinian leadership or people. You are very prejudice against Palestinians without any proof of these claims. Have you been to a Palestinian school?

Why can't you ever accept Palestine's right to existence? Israel has their land. What about other people? Jews are not created superior to other races. They are bloody well semites just like Palestinian Arabs. These two countries both have a right to existence, not just Israel. And we both know the Palestinian Arabs have been there for so much longer than the Jews so a couple of small parcels of wasteland is the least they deserve.

Israel vs Palestine

I feel that the average person from either Israel or Palestine really doesn't care about which country gets the Gaza Strip or the West Bank. Sure the people who live there care but I call it another case of politics and greed gone out of control, in both countries. Both countries fear that a cessation will be a sign of weakness leading only to the other country wanting more land.

Palestine vs. Israel

Sharon in Hospital

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was taken to hospital in Jerusalem on Sunday, media reports say. Israel's Channel 10 television said Sharon, 77, apparently lost consciousness while working in his office.
Ref. CNN

UPDATE: Sharon had a stroke.

Palestine vs. Israel - Page 32

From the Palestinian Media Watch:
https://www.pmw.org.il/Latest%20bulletins%20new.htm#b191205

I can't really think of any comment to add to this!

Update:
Lots of people, throughout the world, claim that the Palestinians want peace in the region. However, that is NOT what the Palestinian leadership, press, and people have to say about it. Yes, they want peace. But the price for it is the total destruction of Israel, with not a single Jew to be found anywhere within what they consider to be the Arab world. The Arab world stretches from West Northern Africa to the Pacific (Indonesia). The Muslims own 99% of that region. Within the Middle East, Arabs own 90% of the region. Little, tiny Israel owns less than 10% of the Middle East. Yet it has by far the most robust, progressive economy, the most liberty, the most religious liberty, and the most impressive range of civil rights of any country in the entire region.

Yet the Palestinians, who are mostly funded by the EU and the US, still insist in including some of the most horrible terrorists in the world as part of their government. This despite their promises in the "roadmap to peace."

Giving up Gaza will not lead to more peaceful relations in the region. It will lead to more terror and war, as Palestine uses it even more as a staging area for attacks on Israel.

in my humble opinion.

Edited: Nighthawk on 20th Dec, 2005 - 1:17pm

Palestine vs. Israel Studies Judaism - Page 32

The Palestinian Authority has rejected any concerns the US had about a terrorist group participating right?

And it is not up to the US and Israel who should or should not participate in Palestine's elections. This is a double standard. You can't go around preaching democracy to the world but then telling countries you can only elect people we want you to.

All the US does by threatening to pull funding is fuel resentment in that part of the world, and consequently fan these groups popularity.

People in Palestine might not even consider Hamas to be a terrorist group anyway. Just because the US and Israel do, doesn't mean they are to Palestinians. These two countries don't have a divine right to judge who a terrorist group is to other societies.

Most Palestinians would consider the Israeli military as terrorists, and with good reason. They've certainly murdered more people in the conflict than Hamas. One man's terrorist is another man's martyr right?

If the US and Israel were serious about peace they wouldn't be threatening the Palestinian's. I don't believe this helps anyone. Surely there are more diplomatic ways to express a concern that don't involve standing over people.

I don't believe the Palestinian's want to destroy Israel. Prove it? Sure there are a minority of extremists who may want this. Just like there are right wing Jewish extremists who want to destroy Palestine. But my research indicates the overwhelming majority of Palestinians just want peace. Same with the majority of Jews.

Let's not forget that Jewish settlers have been occupying Palestinian land illegaly. And that Palestine as a nation was there long before Israel. I get the impression a lot of this rhetoric that Palestinians want to destroy Jews actually comes from Israel to justify their actions. There is always a lot of talk about it from their quarters with no proof this is the majority view.

Nighthawk, I'm a little confused by which region you are actually talking about? Does this incorporate the world's second largest country India, Sri Lanka, Thailand, Burma, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia etc? Last time I checked they were all located between Africa and Indonesia and they are also non-muslim nations.

I don't think Israel has the largest economy in the Middle East? The IMF doesn't seem to think so. Obviously Israel is going to have greater civil liberties, especially because it is backed by the US and embraces a western culture. I fail to understand your point.

And we all know that not giving up Gaza will lead to more war so wouldn't it make sense to give that option a chance?

I understand and agree with you belief that Israel deserves to exist. But do you feel the same way about Palestine? As it stands, Israel is a great deal larger than the West Bank and Gaza combined. Why is it so hard to share?

Edited: arvhic on 20th Dec, 2005 - 1:56pm