Related Information to Palestine vs. Israel

Palestine vs. Israel - Page 41

Israel Considers Options After Bombing

https://apnews.myway.com/article/20060418/D8H2FVMO5.html

President Bush was asked whether he had encouraged Israel to show restraint. His response, which I agree with, was for the Palestinian people to stand up and reject what Hamas is doing, or allowing to happen. I understand that Hamas has done good things for the people of Palestine, but using terrorist tactics against Israel, can only bring despair to Palestine, and Hamas should be watching out for their people.
Hamas officials were quoted as saying the recent attacks were justified because they were responses to Israeli aggression. What aggression are they talking about? I am not aware of recent violence involving Israeli attacks on Palestinians. Are they referring to past incidents? Hamas has to realize that the world is looking at them very closely and is not yet ready to accept that they will run Palestine without using terrorism as a facet of power. These recent attacks are only validating those concerns.

Israel vs Palestine

I think people are still being mislead by the media, believing that Palestine is doing all terrorist activities and Israel is completely right. This leads people to believe that when Israel strikes Hamas it is just getting the "bad guys". But Israel rarely protects any non-israeli person in these attacks and often ends up killing civilians, often purposefully to make a point. But the media gives palestinians clever titles like militants and resistors when infact the so called "terrorist attack" is on Palestinian lands against the israeli army that is illegally occupying their land. Remember, Israel gave them that land as their own, you can't then occupy and take back the land.

Palestine vs. Israel Judaism Studies

The difference is that the last attack that I know of (and almost all others) from Israel, was directed at military targets - known terrorist leaders. When the Palestinians attack - every time that I know of - it is against innocent civilians.

As long as Hamas agrees with these terrorist (yes, terrorist) attacks against civilians, they will continue to gain hatred and censure from the US and other countries.

There is a HUGE difference between what Israel does and what the Palestinians do. And to judge otherwise is, in my opinion, to become an apologist for the terrorists.

Page 41 Israel vs Palestine

Yes I do, for several reasons. Let me explain why.

Did economic sanctions ever stop Saddam from building golden palaces or living the high life? NO.

Why? Because when you deprive a country of aid or the ability to develop its economy you only ever hurt the people. Why should Palestinians suffer because of the bloody mindedness of their elected representatives and their neighbours? They are one of the poorest regions on this planet.

Should we stop delivering aid to Africa because of its dictators? Should we forget about helping people who need help the most because we don't like an ideology used by their politicians? Or because they choose to elect a government the West doesn't approve?

It is an absolute privilege that we are in a position to give people aid and help them. I think it is deplorable that our Governments would stop doing this and turn a blind eye for political gain. And that is what this is all about. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric. Israel has, and always will, talk to Hamas - unofficially. This current freezing of aid is all just rhetoric.

And guess who will suffer as a result.

Yet again this just proves that George Bush is one of the least informed statesman in the world today. Hamas DID NOT conduct the suicide bombing. It was Islamic Jihad, a terrorist group that has no links to Hamas. Do you blame the Irish Government for the IRA bombings?

Here is a fact. Hamas has not once breached the latest cease-fire with Israel. Israel has killed over 30 Palestinians! But the pro-Israel media will never tell you that because such a statement is anti-semitic and might offend, even though a lot of Arabs are Semites.

I think this latest suicide attack is deplorable and only hinders the cause of the Palestinians. It is also pathetic that Hamas would choose to verbally condone such an attack. But are we all going to be fooled by the Israeli Government propaganda machine and just blame Hamas for everything that happens in this world? This reminds me of how "a US official said" is also the fountain of all knowledge.

Yet again this is another myth started by Israel, perpetuated by the media, and swallowed up by those who support Israel. Most of Israel's military missions have killed innocent civilians. Go and look up the stats, this is a fact. Most of Palestinian's suicide bombings have also killed innocent people, this is a fact. Neither side hides this. If you bomb a busy marketplace with a helicopter, how are you targeting terrorists? If you bomb a factory that makes machinery, how is that a terrorist? If you bulldoze an American peace activist to death, how are you targeting terrorists?

Breakdown on deaths

This website provides a breakdown of deaths. It shows that there was only 248 targeted Palestinians killed since September 29, 2000. There was 1995 civilians, including 720 children. 50 fewer bystanders were killed than targets as a result of assassination attempts. So basically, the Israeli Army is killing 2.5 times more children than targets. Sounds like terrorism to me. By comparison, Palestinians have killed 761 Israeli civilians, including 124 children and 1 target. Also sounds like terrorism.

The whole notion that you can even target terrorists is a joke. Name one terrorist that wears a uniform, or walks around with a large red cross above his head, or wears a big sign that says 'shoot me, I"m Mr Terrorist".

At the end of the day, Israel can say it targets terrorists all it wants to justify the bloodshed. But until we see they are killing more terrorists, and less innocent civilians, than their claims are rubbish.

I agree with you 100 per cent on this point. But the same has to be said for the terrorists on the other side of the border. You can never end terrorism by using violence or terrorism. This idiotic, schoolboy ideology of solving problems has never worked. Find one terrorist organisation that has been stopped through more violence?

The only way to end terrorism is by preventing the cause of terrorism or using diplomacy. Both sides at this stage appear uninterested in ending the terrorism otherwise they would get serious about it and grow up.

Hamas needs to end its ways, renounce violence and negotiate with its neighbour. Israel must also renounce violence and step up to the negotiating table. It has to be a combined effort.

At the end of the day, on both sides of this conflict, it's the innocent civilians who are suffering, and that is the biggest tragedy of all.

Israel vs Palestine

I think this question contradicts itself. The Palestinian people made a decision to elect a well-known terrorist group to lead their country. Regardless of the reasons why they chose to do this, the fact remains. Now this government, which has openly defied requests to end terrorism, and has openly applauded terrorist activities against Israel, should be funded by other countries, why?

Yes, I feel for the people, but unfortunately, they made the wrong decision in electing Hamas, and thinking that all hell would not rain down on them the very first time Hamas engaged in, or condoned a terrorist act. Hamas can no longer engage in such acts, then run and hide, and claim responsibility without repercusions. They are now the government of a country, and their actions are representative of the country they lead.

So, Hamas may not have been directly responsible for the latest attacks, but they did not deny this, and also condoned it, stating it was justified. Then they expect other countries, including Western powers, to pretend they didn't hear this, and continue to give them financial aid?

With regards to the number that was quoted since the cease fire started, I wasn't aware of that, and if it is true, then Israel definitely needs to be reprimanded for it. I haven't stated my position as Israel is right and Palestine is wrong. What I am saying is the Palestinian government, aka Hamas, needs to realize that their actions and yes, even official statements, are reflective of the people of their country. Until they realize this, and understand that they need to give up terrorism and pick up diplomacy, the Palestinian people will be the ones who suffer.

Palestine vs. Israel

I understand what you are saying and respect your point of view Malexander, but what were the alternatives in Palestine?

I think you need to understand the reasons why the Palestinians voted for Hamas before making them suffer for the actions of their Government.

I have posted a link to a report earlier that unlocks that mystery.

You have one of the poorest countries in the world who voted for a group that, a) provided charity and social welfare; was perceived as forcing Israel to pull out settlements through hard-line means, and c) was not corrupt and perceived to be transparent.

You have to remember that in elections one party has to win. The only other choice was Fatah, a party that did nothing for its people, was perceived as puppets to Israel and the US, and was visibly corrupt.

Not everyone in Palestine voted for Hamas, not everyone even voted. But they received more votes than the only other viable alternative. And to say they made the wrong choice is your opinion. Until you have lived in that situation and grown up with those alternatives I don't think it is fair of us to judge that they made the wrong choice based on our bias.

Now why should the people suffer for that?

Do we punish poor people in Africa, South America and Asia because they vote for regimes we don't like? Even if these countries want to support Palestinians through NGOs that is at least something. But to try and starve them out of existence is downright cruel.

Do we punish Americans because their government invades other countries without any reason and creates a mess they cannot clean up? Of course not, because most Americans are great people and you can't blame them for their government.

I agree that Hamas is now a government and must behave as such, but they haven't claimed responsibility for this terrorist act. Why do you think they have? Their stupid rhetoric in condoning the act will come back to bite them, and if it does, too bad.

But my concern isn't for Hamas, it's for the 70% of Palestinians who live below the poverty line and are being made to pay for the actions of a minority of idiots.

On another note, the UN Security Council has consistently tried to reprimand Israel for its actions but guess which permanent member blocks their resolutions every single time! I"ll give you a tip, it ain't Russia, China, France or the UK.

Palestine vs. Israel - Page 41

Thanks arvhic for your contributions to this discussion. I really do appreciate it. My fear is that if countries do decide to fund Palestine, that the money still won't get to the people. How do we not know that Hamas will take this money and use it to fund terrorist activity? I completely agree with you that the people are the ones that are suffering, but Hamas needs to understand why, and if they really care about their people, either step down, or change their ways. Funding them, is not, in my opinion, the solution.

Palestine vs. Israel Studies Judaism - Page 41

I agree with you on that point. That is always the danger of providing aid to any unreliable regime. But from the reports I have read, Hamas appears to spend a lot of money on social welfare. It was one of the main platforms that parachuted them to power. When I have time I will try to find some figures on exactly what Hamas spends and where. Of course this will never be an easy task.

I think we also have to be careful to separate the rhetoric of Hamas from it's funding of terrorist activities. We simply do not know if Hamas is still actively involved in terrorist activities, there needs to be some evidence of this. Nighthawk, can you dig some up mate?

We know that the last terrorist act was conducted by Islamic Jihad, which has no obvious link to Hamas. Regardless of their bloody ways in the past, Hamas has actually kept to the latest cease-fire. But if they are found to be involved in terrorist activities then the funding should not dry up, it should go to NGOs in Palestine to help the poor.

Edited: arvhic on 20th Apr, 2006 - 1:29am