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Controlling Children In The Mormon Church - Page 2

Drea, what I was referring to had nothing to do with "not disturbing the childless ." Therefore, I never alledged "all mothers" had to stay home, neither did Brigham Young. I just made a comment on quietness being more than desirable in church. I then added a comment that I remembered Brigham Young made (which can also be found in the Discourses of Brigham Young by Widstoe if I recall correctly) to the affect that the little children are not to be taken to the chapel unless they can remain quiet.

And yes, I do have a very young child and a wife. And I do not understand how people can not control their kids. Obedience to parents was never a problem in my family, my father especially made sure of that. If you were at church, you sat down and were quiet until afterwards; playtime was anywhere except church. And yes, if you do it right, that is very enforceable, even with a one or two year old child. What I see as a problem with the parents I have witnessed (please mark this is based on my observation of my wards, not a general statement) is their ideas of "modern parenting" of "understanding" and not being "strict" because somehow that is not appropriate anymore. And understand please, I'm not having a problem with "understanding", I just feel that a lot of parents misunderstand what "being understanding" means. Children do not know what to do, and what kind of behavior is ok. If parents do not put their foot down, their kids will walk all over them (again, something I unfortunately witness to often....). How is a child supposed to know it can't run around and holler in sacrament? How should they know they need to be quiet if their parents are discussing the last golf game during sacrament?
Another problem I see is child appeasement. Didn't work with the big child Hitler, nor will it work with kids. It always backfires. You can't just give a kid candy or whatever it is to quiet it down instead of enforcing obedience, because it will lead to the children setting the rules, and enforcing their "rules" by screaming and causing a fuss if you don't jump when they tell you too.

I'm very sorry for these kids and their parents. For example two couples from my old ward: we had a young italian couple, they let their kids do what they wanted to. If their kids got upset, they gave them crayons so they could draw quietly. It turned into the kids making demands during sacrament, and if these demands weren't met, they started arguing very loudly with their parents (the kids were 2 and 4). That arguing would go on for like 10 minutes until the parents caved in, and dad went home to get the crayon color the child wanted, or until mommy would read her her favorite bed time story. I find that kind of behavior unacceptable.
Very much unlike couple 2, an American couple. Their kids were two girls, 1 and 2 years old. They were rarely ever loud, and I "blame" their parenting skills. Kids were told even before they could fully understand the language that they had to be quiet in church. They usually were, because if they werent, they got a single warning to quiet down. If they did not, the parents grabbed them and carried them outside and gave them a talking to. If they still did not quiet down, they were sat down on a bench and told they had to be quiet for 5 consecutive minutes before they could go back to the chapel (big deal since their crayons were still in the chapel). They might fuss for a while but their parents never gave in to them, so they learned after a while.

I consider this good parenting. I know a lot of people will probably disagree with me here, but I guess I'm old fashioned enough to still believe it is a basic requirement in the family that when the parents say something, the children obey. I guess modern child psychologist consider it better to let the kids "discover" what is right and wrong or something weird like that.

RominaL, that is very correct what you said, there are facilities to cater to even the very young in our ward buildings. I still think the principle behind Brigham's statement remains in force though. For example, I'm very very happy with the ward I go to now. We have two cry rooms away from the chapel. They have a TV screen and stereo in there so parents can still see and listen to sacrament meeting. But the very little children are away from the chapel so as to not disturb others from listening to the speakers. I'm sorry if ya'll disagree, but I think if you have trouble hearing the guys talking up front, somethings wrong with the people in the chapel, whether it's the adults being irreverent or the kids mistaking sacrament for play time. I consider the noise level in all Mormon wards I've been to except for two absolutely irreverent. And as I said the problem isn't having kids in the chapel; go to my old Catholic church and you'll know. We didn't have kids running around or screaming during mass. As I said in my first post, I strongly believe parents ought to control their children or if it is impossible, stay out and get the kids under control before you disturb the reverence in sacrament meeting.

PS: I'll get that quote for ya RominaL

Church Mormon The Children Controlling

But at least you do something about it you know what I am saying? There are parents who let the kids shout, cry and whine and they don't take them out that's when the whole thing turns disrespectful towards others.

Controlling Children In The Mormon Church Studies Doctrine Mormon

Old South: I'm glad you have been observing parents and children...you probably will do a good job when your babies start to arrive. Just keep in mind not everyone thinks like you or will parent like you. You will understand when you are faced with the responsibility. Honestly, you don't see your parenting results until your kid is about 15, when they start to choose their paths for themselves. If you have been harsh and controlling, they will probably do things behind your back....if you are too lax with them, they will not become achievers of much (my observations, my opinion) All toddlers are testing the waters...they will be loud, they will have bad days, they will resist your control, it's part of their development. By about age 5, is when a child is truly capable of sitting for an hour quietly (school age). By the way, I have a 17-year-old, and besides my husband she is my best friend. She has verbalized to me her gratefulness for giving her freedom to choose; yet our relationship is such that she respects me and does not want to let me down, my ideals have become her ideals, she is awsome. between, I'm the disciplinarian, my husband is the softy; I like it that way, I have observed men physically abusing children...left me with a bad taste. See everyone is dealing with different perspectives on parenting. If your dad did a great job, you are lucky, because you have a good example to follow, some of us are making it up as we go.

SuzieSu: I don't think you should let the babies disturb others, sorry some don't take them out. Ohh geez...my kids are screaming right now....what a wonderful noise. I have often asked Heavenly Father why little kids have to be so loud...I have not gotten a response, he probably can't hear my prayer over all the crying... (that is a joke people)

Thanks for chatting about this...one topic, I do have true experience with.

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Taking our children to sacrament meeting each week allows for many teaching moments to occur. I don't like the word control, rather I teach my children, not control them. I will not judge another's parenting skills when they are at church, as I do not know their situation. It would be wrong of me to do so. I do not know if a child has a learning disability, or has recently had an illness or tragic event happen in their life, slept poorly the night before, etc...to know why the child is acting out in church. Of course, I do not think children should run up and down the aisles of the church, but if a child does, I am not going to judge that parent. I do not know their current situation. Parenting is very difficult at times, and I don't want to judge them, because I know, my kid might be the next one acting out in church. I feel that one reason some parents may not discipline their children at church is because someone may judge them harshly or feel they were to hard on the kid. In today's society many parents are afraid of disciplining their children in public, because some bystander may turn them in for child abuse. Sad, but true.

Dbackers and I have six children--all boys--ages 10, 7, 6, 3 1/2, 1 1/2, and 3 months. We struggle each week trying to keep our children reverent during Sacrament meeting. I feel our children do pretty well, but they do have times when they are struggling to be reverent. I believe when these moments arise, that they are opportunities for us to teach our children. The Savior instructed us to "Feed His lambs." When our children are disruptive and not allowing a reverent atmosphere to occur, of course we take our children out. However, each child is different and sometimes requires different parental strategies and discipline. When I need to take the older children out (very rarely, but it does happen), I take them into a quiet classroom and make sure they understand what they did that was wrong. We talk about that choice, and then I teach them about repentance. We pray and ask Heavenly Father to forgive us and to help us learn to be more reverent in His house. I think this works because we rarely have to take the oldest 3 out. We do encourage them to sing, or at least follow the words in the hymn book. During the sacrament prayer, they follow along in their scriptures. They like to watch the words, they like to make sure the priest gets the prayer right. After the sacrament, they are allowed to read one of the books, The Friend, or color.

Our youngest 3 are more difficult in sacrament meeting due to their ages. We have had moments when a child has escaped from the row and ran down the aisle to our embarassment. However, we are lucky enough to have a lot of family that live near us, and they help us guard the aisle and capture our 3 and 1 year old. When our little ones do escape, I take them into the hall, I take them into a quiet room and explain what they did wrong, and we also say a short prayer. I show them the pictures of Jesus in the hallways, and missionaries, etc...Young children (under age 4) are just so curious and want to explore--that's not okay in the chapel, though and they need to be taught, not controlled. We try to teach them that sacrament meeting is a time to reflect on the Savior. We have some good weeks and some not so great weeks, but we are doing our best to teach them to be reverent, and it is a worthwhile process. I will not judge others though, whose children may be irreverent. It is so difficult raising and teaching children that instead of criticize and judge, I will choose to be more helpful, understanding, patient, and reach out to those parents that are struggling with this. After all, I believe that is why we were sent to earth to help and strengthen each other.

Church Mormon The Children Controlling

I've seen some children that are not teachable, at least not in the middle of sacrament meeting. In that time I think the parents do need to control the situation because they are out of control. For me the teaching comes long before they come to church. We use FHE as a time to help the kids practise sitting, being reverant and listening. We try to play a game to see who can remember what happened in sacrament that way they pay attention. It doesn't always work but it does have its rewards.

Controlling Children In The Mormon Church

Admirable concept, but in the end it is not understood by all and children often reach the point of "out of control". When a child is out of control in something such as Sacrament meeting or Primary Class as was previously mentioned then you have to control them or others will attempt to if not get you (depends on the kind of Ward / Branch you belong to). That is the point of the Thread - in Church is not a time to wait to try teaching methods simply because no one in the meeting will stop for that. If your child is disorderly then as the parent we must bring order and control the situation. I'm tired of seeing parents just sit there while their children shift the attention of the congregation to what the child is doing. This is very selfish in my opinion. It takes away from the person speaking, teaching or trying to gain the attention of the Members (sometimes difficult to do).

Controlling Children The Mormon Church - Page 2

Reverence and respect: teaching children forgotten principles

When Primary leaders are asked to share some of their challenges in Primary, they often say it is a lack of reverence and respect. Children are growing up in a world where reverence for God and civility toward one another are rapidly diminishing. Incivility and irreverence can become normal and accepted by our children unless we teach them otherwise. Ref. Source 8

Controlling Children The Mormon Church Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 2

What are some of the tips you use in order to get the kids in primary sitting down quietly and reverent during primary presentation in sacrament meeting?