Close Topic Options

Politics - The Next US President? - Page 15

I dont believe that incident will have any noticed effect on Kerry's campaign. The Bush camp has not made any statements regarding it so I doubt it will even be brought up. Now whether or not it influences the voting public is yet to be seen, but my thought is that it will die down (it already has) before the real campaigning begins.

President US The Politics

I don't think the NJ Governor being gay will have any affect at all on the presidential race. It seems now that a former aide is filing a lawsuit for sexual harrassment -- which may be why the governor decided to "come out" with the story first. It has nothing to do with the president or the contender.

In my opinion, of course.
Roz

Edited: FarSeer on 14th Aug, 2004 - 2:58am

Politics - The Next US President? History & Civil Business Politics

I wonder what everyone's reaction is regarding the current 'Swift boat ad' fiasco? Apparently, the Swift Boat Veterans, some of which served with Kerry during the war, put out an ad which denounces Kerry as a leader and states that he falsified a lot of his actions in Vietnam. Kerry has since accused the Bush camp for indirectly being associated with this ad and has filed a grievance because of this, asking for the ad to be removed from circulation.
Now we learn that a Bush volunteer advisor, retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier has resigned from the campaign because he appeared in the controversial ad. The Swift Boat Veterans are considered a 527 group which makes them exempt from limitations on donations, but they are also not affiliated with the GOP. Why is Kerry so defensive about the accusations being made in this ad? I can't recall this much hype when Bush was accused of not serving his military time. What are your thoughts on the this ad campaign?

Page 15 President US The Politics

I think it is just politics as usual. First, democrats a while back tried to make an issue out of Bush's service record. Now, the republicans are doing the same. I think Kerry is defensive because his record towards military spending and veterans benefits is terrible, yet he wants to portray himself as a man who can effective lead the country in a time of war. Sooooo, he becomes the war hero. I think republicans want to dispute this portrayal for the same reasons Kerry cares so much about it being made. If we were not post 9/11 or mid-Irag war, I don't think this would be an issue raised by either side.

President US The Politics

So tena, are you saying that the Swift Boat Veterans are campaigning on behalf of the Bush administration? Veterans in general for many years have been upset with Kerry's attitude since he came back from Vietnam and his open outbursts against vets and the Vietnam war. This type of attack should not be a surprise to him based on those facts, and yes, if there are some from the GOP camp in on this, I dont think it is a direct initiative of the Bush campaign in general; it's simply the opinions of a particular group. Kerry is making things worse for himself by showing such anger and concern over this; like there is some merit behind the accusations that he doesnt want the American public to know about.

Politics - The Next US President?

Swiftboat commander William Rood (am editor for the Chicao Tribune) sets the record straight on the mission that resulted in Kerry's Silver Star. His entire account, which appeared on the front page of today's Tribune, is too long to post in this forum, so I will post some exerpts. The link to the article is directly below:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/special...ll=chi-news-hed

There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago--three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969.

One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other.

For years, no one asked about those events. But now they are the focus of skirmishing in a presidential election with a group of swift boat veterans and others contending that Kerry didn't deserve the Silver Star for what he did on that day, or the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts he was awarded for other actions.

Many of us wanted to put it all behind us--the rivers, the ambushes, the killing. Ever since that time, I have refused all requests for interviews about Kerry's service--even those from reporters at the Chicago Tribune, where I work.

But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown. The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us. It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there.

--------

I was part of the operation that led to Kerry's Silver Star. I have no firsthand knowledge of the events that resulted in his winning the Purple Hearts or the Bronze Star.

But on Feb. 28, 1969, I was officer in charge of PCF-23, one of three swift boats--including Kerry's PCF-94 and Lt. j.g. Donald Droz's PCF-43--that carried Vietnamese regional and Popular Force troops and a Navy demolition team up the Dong Cung, a narrow tributary of the Bay Hap River, to conduct a sweep in the area.

The approach of the noisy 50-foot aluminum boats, each driven by two huge 12-cylinder diesels and loaded down with six crew members, troops and gear, was no secret.

Ambushes were a virtual certainty, and that day was no exception.

Instructions from Kerry

The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that particular operation, had talked to Droz and me beforehand about not responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush.

We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crews about the plan.

The Viet Cong in the area had come to expect that the heavily loaded boats would lumber on past an ambush, firing at the entrenched attackers, beaching upstream and putting troops ashore to sweep back down on the ambush site. Often, they were long gone by the time the troops got there.

The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage ambushes.

Meanwhile, Kerry ordered our boat to head upstream with his, leaving Droz's boat at the first site.

It happened again, another ambush. And again, Kerry ordered the turn maneuver, and again it worked. As we headed for the riverbank, I remember seeing a loaded B-40 launcher pointed at the boats. It wasn't fired as two men jumped up from their spider holes.

We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, jumped ashore and chased a VC behind a hooch--a thatched hut--maybe 15 yards inland from the ambush site. Some who were there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise. Recollections of those who go through experiences like that frequently differ.

With our troops involved in the sweep of the first ambush site, Richard Lamberson, a member of my crew, and I also went ashore to search the area. I was checking out the inside of the hooch when I heard gunfire nearby.

Not long after that, Kerry returned, reporting that he had killed the man he chased behind the hooch. He also had picked up a loaded B-40 rocket launcher, which we took back to our base in An Thoi after the operation.

John O'Neill, author of a highly critical account of Kerry's Vietnam service, describes the man Kerry chased as a "teenager" in a "loincloth." I have no idea how old the gunner Kerry chased that day was, but both Leeds and I recall that he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the VC usually wore.

The man Kerry chased was not the "lone" attacker at that site, as O'Neill suggests. There were others who fled. There was also firing from the tree line well behind the spider holes and at one point, from the opposite riverbank as well. It was not the work of just one attacker.

------

Rear Adm. Roy Hoffmann, the task force commander, fired off a message congratulating the three swift boats, saying at one point that the tactic of charging the ambushes was a "shining example of completely overwhelming the enemy" and that it "may be the most efficacious method of dealing with small numbers of ambushers."

Hoffmann has become a leading critic of Kerry's and now says that what the boats did on that day demonstrated Kerry's inclination to be impulsive to a fault.

Our decision to use that tactic under the right circumstances was not impulsive but was the result of discussions well beforehand and a mutual agreement of all three boat officers.

------

Politics The US President - Page 15

The group known as the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" continues to stir this year's Presidential election. Today, one of President Bush's election lawyers, Benjamin Ginsberg, stepped down from his role in the Bush campaign after admitting ties with the group that has been attacking John Kerry's war record. Mr. Ginsberg will be our guest tonight.

If you're keeping score in the political match for President, John Kerry scored a point today. Or maybe President Bush lost one. It depends on how you look at it. This morning, Mr. Ginsberg resigned after voluntarily disclosing his role as an advisor to both the Bush campaign and the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." Is this dual role a violation of federal election laws? Technically it isn't, but the appearance of a "connection" could still have political consequences. Ginsberg's admission of ties with the so-called "527 group" comes after the President has categorically denied that a connection exists between his campaign and the television ads in question.

Politics The US President Politics Business Civil & History - Page 15

There are a lot of different considerations about this whole mess.

For example, while there are extremely loose ties between some of the members of President Bush's campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans organization, there are very similar ties between Mr. Kerry's campaign and moveon.org and other leftist organizations. These leftist organizations are the ones that have been running attack ads against President Bush. The difference? The media ignore attack ads against President Bush, and scream about similar ads against Mr. Kerry.

Another consideration:
President Bush has not been looking for ways to sue moveon.org and the other 527 groups on the left, yet Mr. Kerry's campaign has taken a lot of questionable actions against the Swift Boat Veterans organization.

Overall, I think that the more Mr. Kerry's campaign makes of this, the more damage it will suffer.

Finally, it is interesting that the Swift Boat Veteran ads have garnered so much attention, considering that the major news media outlets, including Fox, mostly ignored it all from the beginning. It wasn't until various internet sources brought it all to the forefront that the alphabet soup took notice.

Ultimately, there have been a lot of valid, important questions raised by this whole episode. It is now clear that Mr. Kerry lied about some of his service activities, including the "Christmas in Cambodia" incident. In fact, I read somewhere this morning that apparently Kerry's spokesman has admitted that the first Purple Heart "may have been" a "self-inflicted" wound. (The contention is that this was from some shrapnel that came from a practice mortar round that was too close.)

What this all comes down to is that Mr. Kerry has brought up his Vietnam war record continuously throughout his campaign. He trumpets the fact that he served in Vietnam, that he won 3 Purple Hearts, that he is a war hero. But there are a lot of valid questions and concerns about his service there, and his conduct AFTER his service, that he needs to address. But he refuses to do so.

Yet his people continue to cast aspersions on President Bush's service during the Vietnam era, claiming that he was AWOL.

Once again, the way the two men respond to the various charges is very telling. Kerry attacks the messengers, Bush responded to the charges by making all the records available to the public. Kerry still refuses to open up any of his military records, yet Bush has even made his dental and medical records available.

Bush is open about his service, doing some of the most dangerous work possible (flying fighter jets). Kerry is very secretive about his service.