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Mormons & Catholics

Now that we have exhausted some of the current topics it is time for me to enter to another level of mature conversation with those whom I believe are mature enough to handle it from an LDS perspective. Actually I was thinking to make this board not only mature related, but LDS mature related since non-LDS mature members can also see this, but then I changed my mind since if they are mature, then a discussion of this nature should not be relevant to them. Anyway, back to the subject at hand...

As LDS we are thought that we are to respect our fellowmen's religious beliefs and I am in agreement with that, but I have found that many have taken this to mean that we cannot point out errors in other's beliefs. For instance, if I met person 'x' and I tried what I would like to call, 'the soft method' which is building on common beliefs and they believed then there would be no reason to focus on other religions. Conversely, if person 'x' refused to listen, but still wanted to discuss my thoughts, I could share with person 'x' possible reasons for the inaccuracy of their religion (in the most respectful way possible), but this would require some knowledge! The Lord never mixed words with telling the scribes and Pharisees how full of error their doctrine was... so I guess we can discuss it too.

Now this thread has been set up to discuss the rise of the Catholic Church and possible consequences for us in the Last Days. To begin, I believe, and of course I have no factual knowledge of this, but the Catholics have an underground society that listen and obey the Pope and no one else, they keep treasures and scrolls and artifacts of the centuries, and if it were to be exposed, it would actually show that they do not have any rights of authority as they claim through Bishop Clements.

What are your thoughts?

I will refer you to this site, it is dramatized, but may contain some credible info. Keep in mind that just as Anti-mormon sites take things out of terms to make it (the Truth) look false this site may also do the same, it will be up to you to study it.
https://home.primus.com.au/kenshaw/page8.htm

Catholics and Mormons

Interesting site. I remember when I first read the Book of Mormon about the 'great and abominable Church' the missionaries were quick to point that it was refering to the Catholic Church but then studying the Institute Manuals it clearly states that it is a misconception and as members we should not think that statement is about one particularly Church.

Mormons & Catholics Studies Doctrine Mormon

I believe that the institute manuals are trying to teach tolerance and to not isolate a membership that is already zealous to at with each statement a book from the Church makes, however the Book of Mormon makes this quite clear, that there is only one Church of God and the other (which would mean everyone else) is of the Devil. Now it is important to usderstand that the Devil will use one lie and 1000 truths to sway you from God, thus there are many churches set up to 'get to' God, but only One Church has the real path or in other words the authority and knowledge of how to get to Him. In my personal view there may be those who are genuinely trying to get to God, and they are not part of the LDS Church, but we are taught that such persons will have a chance if they do not find the Gospel in this life, but at the same time I feel there are churches or should I say organizations set up with the appearance of religion with a real underlying order which is anything but to get man to God. This is the focus of this thread... is the Catholic church set up in this way?

Catholics and Mormons

I have a couple of thoughts on this topic.

First, of course, the Catholic Church is the great and Abominable Church referred to in the Book of Mormon. The Catholic Church traces its roots back to the beginning of Christianity. Now, we know there was an apostasy and so they no longer have the priesthood authority derived from the Savior, but they claim it, nonetheless. So, if they are the original church which apostasied, then how can they not be this great abominable church referred to in the Book of Mormon? Even using the definition that says that all Church's except the Savior's true restored church together comprise this great adominable church, they would still be a part of it, even it they don't have sole ownership.

So, I think they are, but I don't put much significance to what the web site referenced above has to say. I think this site does to Catholic doctrine exactly what anti-Mormon sites do to LDS doctrine. It is twisted to make their points. There point about praying to Mary is an example of this. If one understands the Catholic Church's explanation of praying to saints, it isn't as strange as this web site makes it seem. I am not suggesting I believe in the doctrine, I am just saying that this web site isn't being entirely truthful in it's presentation of this practice.

Catholics and Mormons

Tenaheff Wrote:

I believe it does, hence I put this before the link:

JB Wrote:

The site was merely to wet our feet in this topic, but if you have more credible links to discovering the hidden parts of the Church I would be interested.

In general I believe that the Catholics took a lot of their present day beliefs from a mixture of pagan Roman-Greek ceremonies and traditions such as in the same praying to saints which is an example of this along with their homage to Mary which is very similar to goddess worship which was very important in the medieval era since 'woman' or 'mother' is symbolic of life giving.

Along the lines of the actual governance of the church I once heard from some talk tapes that the church has within it's possession many of the dead sea scrolls and others that atest to many of the doctrines we now believe in the LDS Church such as baptism of the dead. An Archbishop once even commented after reading the scroll that spoke of the people in Cumran(spelling?) that if he were to name their religion he would call it.. 'the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints' and then he added... 'but there is already a church with that name'. Sorry I lack referrences to this... the tapes I believe were called, 'Discovering the Dead Sea Scrolls', but I may be wrong.

Mormons & Catholics

I don't have any links to provide, but I was a practicing Catholic for approximately 10 years as an adult. Not your average Catholic either. I spent time studying why certain things were done the way they were, etc. I was a lecture for a while too, so I actually participated in the Mass itself.

For example, one explanation for praying to Saints is this: If you have a friend or contact in place somewhere and you are looking for a reference, wouldn't you ask that person to put in a good word for you? So, as it was explained to me, the Saints have been identified as people who have definately made it to heaven. They are with God, so why not ask them to intervene for you. The Church does not worship these people, they worship Jesus or God. Bigggest problem I see is that the average Catholic doesn't know why certain things are done, so it may be that the average Catholic is worshipping Mary and doesn't realize that they shouldn't be or that the Catholic church itself doesn't teach this.

I saw your statement about the link possibly twisting material like anti-Mormon sites. I simply won't give an anti-Catholic site any more attention or credibility than I would an anti_Mormon site. I believe no information is better than false or intentionally misleading information.

I personally believe that there is also a power thing going on in the Catholic church and so if they did get information to prove they were doing it wrong, I believe it would be suppressed. I have nothing buy my personal feelings to base this on, but a good example I think is how they have handled all of the sexual scandals. They were more interested in public image than they were in peoples salvation, in my opinion. Yet, just like is true of our leaders, they are all just mortal men and therefore, not perfect.

Edited: tenaheff on 19th Apr, 2004 - 10:36am

Mormons & Catholics

That is exactly my point, one of the medieval beliefs is that man cannot be on par with God or in other words to suggest we could even expect God to acknowledge us (we who are so little) is to suggest the same as a commoner demanding to be heard of a king. Thus they take away a key part - that we are children of God and that He is very mindful of us individually and will hear our prayers in the same way a father will hear a child, there is no need to go to our own Father's best friend to put in a word for us. Mind you, my mother was the head of the Legion of Mary and I grew up in a Catholic school so I see the actions of the participants, they somehow go through the motions as lost souls would looking for grace. You are very right about the fact that most members of the Catholic church do not know their own doctrines or practises and I firmly believe it is better that way for them (in their mind), since if they tried to know more it would mean they would somehow have to be more 'spiritual' or then ask questions for which they cannot get an answer. Most are happy to know they can sin now, make a confession, say several prayers and then be saved. Sounds like the devil doctrine, but it is not as bad as the Born-Agains who tell you that just believing is sufficient. gain a good point you brought up about the image... yes, there is a political element that I feel is so dark, so evil that if you were even to try to expose it you would become ripe for a quick death, and that is no joke.

Mormons & Catholics Mormon Doctrine Studies

There is a website by a member (perhaps former member) of the Church that discusses the betrayal of Peter. This is not the betrayal by Peter.

https://www.untomanynations.faithweb.com/ma...ts-purpose.html

Towards the middle of the page, he tells about his research into Linus, the first Bishop of Rome, the first Pope. He explains the evidence to indicate the Linus betrayed Peter to the Romans so that he, Linus, could take over the Church in Rome.

What this indicates is that the apostasy of the early Church started much earlier than most of us think. Usually, we place it at about 100AD. That could be a good number based on the time when most of the local congregations had been overthrown by the great and abominable church (a secret combination that overcame the early church). John wrote that the local churches had already turned away from the truth, in that they disregarded his, an Apostle's, words.

I suggest that you read all of the web page, but keep in mind that this author has some VERY strange ideas. I think that there is some powerful historical truth in his words, but there is certainly quite a bit of error, as well.