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I Am Shifting From Believing Mormons

Name: Bethany

Comments: I am shifting from believing and not believing in the Mormon church and these are the things that are bothering me:

1. Can someone please explain Doctrine and Covenants section 132:61-65 this scripture confuses me because aren't men and women equal in the church?

2nd: why did it take until 1978 for blacks to become members of the church?

3rd: a. Why is the distribution of our tithing so secret? Be. Isn't 10% of our money a lot of money? C. Why should we pay tithing over eating? D. Why don't we pay after our expenses?

E. Why do garments cost so much money? And 4th: a. Why is being gay such a sin? B. Why did we try so hard to ban gay marriage?

Mormons Believing Shifting I

OK, I'll bite on some of these.

We don't get to choose whats true and whats not true. Truth is truth and thats the end of it. You might think that it is sexist, to have a blue sky, and think that it should be pink. Or half blue and half pink, that way it would be fair. But that dosn't matter. The TRUTH is the sky is blue. Thats why a testimony that the Book of Mormon is true is so important. If God Himself declares to you that it's true,though the power of the Holy Ghost, then its true, end of story. And everything else that follows is true as well. If you don't know if its true or not, then sincerely ask in prayer in the name of the savior, until you do know. Then follow the program the Lord Himself set up.

The truth is gay relationships are an abomination to the Lord. Its the main reason He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. It perverts the family structure, that God has ordained. It prevents the perpetuation of life, and is basically a slap in the face, to God. By standing up against this wickedness, we may have stayed the wrath of God a little longer in this land. Somewhere there is a scripture (maybe someone can help me) that says: when the majority of the people choose wickedness over righteousness, that we are ripe for destruction, or something like that.

I Am Shifting From Believing Mormons Studies Doctrine Mormon

I doubt you understand fully what these verses are saying. So before I go off and try to assume you understand, how about you explain what you are seeing from these versus, and we will go from there.

Thats when God decided to do it. You will have to take it up with Him.

Thats how all churches do it. Its not really a part of being secret, its because some people have a hard time with a church having so much money. There is a lot we don't know, but there is a lot we do know. We know wards(stakes, missions) get a lot of the money. We know we are building Temples and churches around the world. We know a lot of it does help BYU. So I have a good idea where some of that money is going, if you just look around.

Its a matter of having Faith in God! Do you believe that God can bless you for being obedient?

Then it really wouldn't be a sacrifice. If we just paid when it was convenient, then it really wouldn't teach us much. The point if any religion is to help us put God first in our life. We pay tithing first because isn't God the most important.

Do you even know how much Garments costs? I'm going to say no!

Being gay probably isn't, its what you DO while being gay that is a sin.

Last time I checked God said Marriage is between a Man and a woman. Did you read something different?

May I suggest you take more time reading your scriptures (and Book of Mormon) then surfing the web looking for doubt.

Mormons Believing Shifting I

Many of your questions are actually Discussed in depth here if you Search for them. However, you will not find Topics about Blacks and the Priesthood or Garments in the Public section - those Topics are reserved for the Mature LDS section because sometimes there is more to say than can be understood in a Public section.

Mormons Believing Shifting I

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I would guess that you embrace the liberal beliefs and philosophies of "the World." Are you currently enrolled in, and attending, an institution of higher education (university) somewhere such as Berkley or Boston? The reason I say this is that all of your questions reflect the "liberal" point of view.

1. D&C 132:61-65. This is an Eternal law, given by God, to mankind. It relates to the conditions, responsibilities, and true eternal blessings of both men and women for all of eternity. We have several discussions concerning plural marriage on the forum, I suggest that you read them.

Anyway, it has absolutely nothing to do with equality of men and women in "the Church." It has everything to do with the Laws of God. Modern philosophies of "equality" are not in line with God's laws and commandments. In fact, many people have made a very good case to show that these modern philosophies of equality are major causes of the huge rise in social problems in the western world.

2. People of African descent (blacks) have always been members of the Church. Black men were forbidden to hold the Priesthood. Brigham Young and other leaders gave explanations of why this was so, but many of them are contradictory. If you are really interested, and not just looking for an excuse, then take the time to get your own revelation from God about it.

Nevertheless, we believe in living Prophets who teach and do God's will. Now, for those who know me on the forum, this may sound hypocritical, but I am speaking from a generalized Mormon viewpoint. Again, we have other threads on the forum that address this particular subject in much greater detail.

However, I find it very interesting that you asked the question as you did. It shows a complete lack of even basic knowledge of LDS history.

3. If you don't believe in tithing, then take it up with the Lord. He commanded it. The word "tithe" means "one tenth". It is a commandment from the Old Testament, not even from the Church. It is your choice whether or not to pay it and receive the blessings from it. Remember the parable of the widow's mite that Jesus gave. Also, look at the story of Elijah and the widow.

If you believe in tithing, as I do, then none of your questions are a problem (well, except for how the Church uses it finances, but that is a completely different subject). As for paying on your "net" income (after expenses) that is completely between you and God.

4. Gay marriage. There is no such thing. Marriage, as defined in ALL religions and cultures, and throughout all of history, is between men and women. Homosexual relationships are forbidden in the Bible. The work to "ban" something that can only exist through the destruction of traditional values and social contracts is simply an attempt to maintain a sense of morality. If you believe, at all, in God, Christianity, or even common sense, this should not be a problem. However, it apparently is, for a lot of people.

We are told, in both the Old and New Testaments, that wickedness will abound, that common and traditional values and beliefs will be toppled, and that society will fail. "Gay Marriage" is just one of many symptoms showing that this is happening right now.

5. Why do garments cost so much? They don't. They are very inexpensive.

I am very sorry, but it really appears that none of these questions come from you, yourself. They are common anti-Mormon questions based on a very superficial knowledge of the Church, history, doctrines, and teachings.

Would you care to actually join the forum and discuss them in detail, in the open as we are willing to do?

I Am Shifting From Believing Mormons

It must be hard thing to go have doubts about your faith. I can imagine that it is difficult and a crisis in your life. Personally all of these questions are something that you have to work through yourself and find where you fit within the church. Rest assured that there is room in this church for a wide perspective of these answers. I know that many of the answers so far are from a conservative orthodox point of view, but remember the church is larger then that perspective. So if you are attending a "liberal" college then good for you. There is nothing wrong with that. With all things what matters is how you use your knowledge to make the world a better place.
I will try to give a different perspective with respect to the above positions.

Blacks and the Priesthood- Officially nothing has been given as to why African Decent people could not hold the Priesthood. It was considered a church policy not a doctrine. I do not buy the curse of cane stuff. Personally it I think that it was racism that kept many from holding the priesthood, but I cannot speak for those who made the decision. Remember they were people too and influenced by culture and assumptions. One of the hardest thing I personally think we have to overcome for revelation to work is our own assumptions about life. If we question our assumptions then we begin to ask and then we receive. I think this was the case for this issue. A good book is called "Black and Mormon" you get it at amazon. It talks a lot on this subject.

tithing: You are not the only one concerned about the nontransparent of tithing money in the church. I know many faithful LDS who have discussed this issue. It is a valid concern, especially in a day when transparency is a value in a democracy like ours, and we hear so much today about transparency is government and in financial institutions. Personally I think that since we ARE the church-its members and give our money, so we do have some right to know where the money goes and how much. I feel I am as much a LDS as I am a US citizen and we demand this from our government. However with that said, I have no power to change such policy, and I am sure that the church's reasons for doing so are in good faith. I personally do not think that my money is being used for the wrong things, I feel that the church is helping many with the money. I trust them. So I think it comes to a question of trust, in their character and callings.
As for 10% it is the standard. Nothing really says what a 10% tithe is. That is between you and God. All we are told is that it is 10% of income/increase. Income technically means your money after all debts are paid, and living expenses. (This definition is from a tax attorney in my ward and is the traditional church view and is still in the RLDS), but generally we say 10% of all our money. I do not see anyone in my ward tithing from their home gardens or the eggs that they raise, or give 10% of their beef cattle. (I have many hobbyist farmers in my ward). I know traditionally tithing in the church has had many definitions. But what it comes down to is what you feel that you can give, and feel is accepted. The beauty of it is that no one can tell you different it you feel you are a full tithe payer.

Gay Marriage- I struggle with this one as well, and I know many LDS that do too. At this time the church does not support gay marriage, but I think that there is room in the church for those who do. It is a challenge to be a member and balance this. But again as with African people, perhaps there are assumptions we need to question before we can move forward. Again that is not my burden to have to make that change, but I have found that I can still be LDS and support gay rights.

Garments- I am not sure what you are getting at. I personally think they are very affordable, and the church has made every effort to make them affordable. It cost money to make them, and the church gets no profit from them.

In Mormonism there are paradoxes. One being that we are the only church to have absolute truth and yet we say we that we seek truth from all sources and churches. The key is to balance yourself on this spectrum. I personally believe that there is great room to balance yourself in this paradox of having all absolute truth and seeking more from others. I personally think that it is a matter of personal revelation and prayer as to where you fit on this scale, and to respect where others are as well. Joseph Smith did not like creeds because her felt that they narrowed the memberships beliefs. He believed that the Kingdom of God had room for many perspectives. Please do not loose sight of this.
The thing about the church is that I feel that it does a lot of good in this world. It has a lot of goodness, and that is something that this world needs more of. I personally feel that is not something to throw away lightly, but rather decide where and how you can contribute to that goodness.
Best of Luck

I Shifting Believing Mormons

First of all I don't know where you guys get the idea garments are affordable....lets get our heads out of the sand, shall we? Not every single member of the church lives here (USA). For most people outside the country the prices are expensive considering that they also have to pay for shipping you know what am I saying? Also what's up with the rant about tithing? Since when does the Lord have an obligation to tell us what he does with HIS money? Listen to me whether the church uses the money for the right purposes or not thats a non-issue for us you know what am I saying? We're commanded to pay tithing, full stop. We ain't responsible about what others choose to do with the money.

I Shifting Believing Mormons Mormon Doctrine Studies

TRUE THAT Sister ! I'll answer for my own actions. And those who handle the Lords money, will answer for their actions,like any misappropriated funds.And I'm sure they are well aware of that.