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Apostle

Apostle

What for you are noticeable differences or similarities between Early Christianity Apostles, Early Church Apostles and Modern Day Apostles?

Apostle

The first ones were chosen by Jesus himself, ordinary men...fishermen. The early ones weren't afraid to speak up and stand for what they believed in and didn't have much of formal education you know what am I saying and 99.9% of the modern ones have degrees and were wealthy men before being called as such. Don't take me wrong you know what am I saying? I ain't trying to say that only rich people are called to be apostles because that would be apostate in a sense I am just making comparisons which to me are quite real.

Apostle Studies Doctrine Mormon

True, many apostles are wealth and well educated, but if anything this empress me more. For one, these apostles are giving up high paying jobs to serve the Lord. Two, it shows they are keeping the commandment to have an education. Now similarities, the are humble, faithful man, that speak from their hearts. They are called to be leaders over the Church of Christ.

Apostle

Well said Thomaslee. Suzie, I think you are trying to imply that only wealthy people are called to be apostles when in fact nothing is further from the truth. They have been called by God through inspiration from the Holy Spirit.

Apostle

All early apostles were an organized travelling quorum, who's main mission was preaching the gospel. They went door-to-door, without purse or scrip, stood in market places and shouted the gospel from the roof tops.

Modern apostles sit at Salt Lake, convene at the temple weekly, and go on short "business trips" to oversee church business in other countries and give talks to groups of saints.

The whole door-to-door thing which originally was the job of the apostles & seventies has nowadays been delegated to the elders (evolution of the way missionary work is handled is a whole topic for itself...).

Early apostles went into places where they weren't wanted and suffered cold, hunger, incarceration. Modern apostles fly comfortably in business class, sleep in nice hotels, and are greeted by happy members who tend to care for all their needs. I don't recall any our apostles being persecuted or incarcerated for preaching the gospel. Interestingly, this persecution was considered vital in the early church.

Also, in the early church all apostles received revelation for themselves and for the whole church as they all had the exact same ordination and keys but revelations will only be announced with approval of the head of the priesthood. Nowadays I've always been taught that's not true, and that only the heard of the priesthood could receive revelation for the whole of the saints. (Not so sure about that change).

I think yeah, what they do and how they do it has changed significantly.

About what Suzie mentioned, I do find it kind of weird/sad that no ordinary men seem to be called to such high positions. We don't have any farmers anymore in the highest quorums. Now we have a whole lot of doctors and lawyers, of whom we have been constantly warned in the early church (lawyercraft and doctorcraft were called out as amongst the biggest evils). In the early days they were ordinary men, who prided themselves in their ordinary work. That's another one: as far as I know, none of the apostles work anymore. In the early church they all continued working, and I remember reading about Wilford Woodruff and how he mentioned how important it is to always work physically like we were commanded, and how he would plow his fields as long as his body is able to do the work.

Those are just some things that came into my mind when thinking about early apostles and modern apostles.

Apostle

Name: Sister Sorensen

Comments: Old South I think you're reading into too much about modern Apostles. Your idea that they do nothing but go on "business trips" and have their every need taken care of shows either some kind of jealousy or just one perspective, kind of narrow minded to be honest. The Lord's church has evolved much from the early days. In the early days of the Lord's church there were many debts but now the church has prospered enabling the Apostles to do more work for larger groups of people. Now that they have so much help with many leaders and missionaries they do not need to go door to door but instead get busy to helping the member of the church and speaking with world leaders trying to open gates for future missionaries.

Apostle

Yes this did happen, but not always. Most of the three years Christ was a live the Apostles were following Christ and learning his teachings. There are times when Christ sent them forth to preach the gospel. That was more because of the size of the church. There wasn't an MTC around the corner getting Missionaries every week. The point being is the church was small and all went and preached the gospel.

I don't know where you are getting that information. Do you not remember Elder Oaks, and Elder Holland Going to South America and the Philippians for two years. Now this wasn't as much as preaching (even though that was part of it) it was more for training and strengthening the church in those areas. Pretty much the same thing Paul was trying to do with his letters. Paul's letters wasn't about preaching the gospel it was about help the church grow stronger. A key part of what apostles do.

Actually is almost been part of the Priesthood, mostly Elders in the priesthood. Thus the only two times you are called Elder is when Men go on a mission, or when they are called to be in the seventy/Apostle. It has nothing to do with delegation. Its always been the Elders Job! Its just we have more Elders then there was in the Early Church.

Wow? Have you not checked out Youtube and seen the videos made of the church? These point fingers at the church for many reasons (mostly fails) claims. Even now at Sun Dance in Utah there is again another Movie about the Mormons and Proposition 8 and gay marriage. Yes they are trying to twist some of the things the church said. But to say they don't get persecuted is not seeing it in plain site. Now it might not be face to face like it was in the early days. But the persecution is still there, even more its world wide!

Again I'm not really sure what you mean by this? I'm guessing because Each Apostle had his own book in the bible, they had there own Revelation and there own teaching? But now days that doesn't happen? I disagree. Each Apostle can get revelation (as they do). When Apostles come and speak to Stakes around the world they are still getting revelation and share the message FOR THAT STAKE. Thats how Revelation works. You get revelation for the people you are over. Nobody in the early church or today would get revelation for the whole church unless it comes through the Prophet! Thats the point of having a prophet! But thats dealing more with new revelation. When the Apostles speak at General Conference they have gotten revelation of what they feel they should teach! Thats for the whole church!

What is an "Ordinary Man"? I mean Elder Ballard was a Car sales man? I mean Gordon B Hinckley worked for the church himself. Was the Media Publisher, by no means was Gordon B, Hinckley Rich on any scale. Pres Monson works for the Deseret News. Yes some are Lawyers, one is a Doctor. I don't see all the men being rich. I see the church and leaders come from ever profession. (And the early church would have had the same thing happen had it been around longer)

I don't see that being much different then the early church. God choose those those that are humble and teachable. It shows not just fishmen are that way, but even Doctors and Lawyers.

This is still only recent took affect. Even in the 1970's some of the apostles worked. Its a matter of time. You have to realize the Apostles server on the boards of companies the church owns. Like Deseret Book and BYU. So not only are they running the church with there time, but they also run the church's companies. So even though they might not "work" in the same field as before, they are still working! (Probably way more then you or I).

Apostle Mormon Doctrine Studies

I thought this post was about what differences there are, rather than why or about justifying those changes...

For example tubaloth, in your post you:
1) agree to the change, but defend it
2) disagree with a change
3) agree with the change being there, but defending why (if you really want to know, read for example D&C 107:38; it's also mentioned in the TPJS that Elders are not to be called to missions, referring to the OFFICE the person holds in the priesthood not to the way they are "called" [as in Elder so-and-so); the elders are ordained "standing minisiters" whereas apostles and seventies are "travelling ministers)
4) disagreeing and voicing that opinion is not persecution; such videos disagreeing with our position will even be allowed in the Kingdom of God when Christ comes, but persecution isn't. Reasoning (however irrational it may be) is still reasoning, not persecution. Toughen up.
5) You disagree. I understand. I was referring however to "Thus sayeth the Lord" (which Joseph Smith said was the one we should listen for; see TPJS) type of Revelations, not reports of revelations (OD-2) or them feeling inspired to share a message. Next, I was referring to who was allowed in the church to receive this type of revelation. In the early days, every apostle was entitled to a "thus sayeth the Lord" revelation which was binding upon the church, a revelation on new doctrine for example. This is no longer the case and considered out of order, as it is taught nowadays that only the president of the church as prophet to the church is entitled to that kind of revelation. That's the change I was referring to.
6) You disagree. I feel that a vast majority of modern general authorities seem to be rather high ranking members of society, say serving on board-of-directors, being in high paying professions, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong.
7) You agree with the change, but defend it as perfectly normal.

Out of 7, you agreed with 3 things having changed, twice referred to something else than I was trying to say, and only disagreed twice.

Seems like I stirred up something here...