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Why Satan Chose To Attempt An Overthrow - Page 2

I still think that there is not much scriptural support for you ideas. I do accept that God did not "make" Satan a tempter. It was on his own admission. But also lets realize something... Satan is a liar, so his words in the temple need to be put in that light.
I think that we do know why Satan rebelled. He uses the same argument that he always has, the same argument he told Adam and Eve.
He felt that God was holding back from him, that he could become god without God's help. He wanted to rival God and take his place. That is what he is telling eve in genesis. That god is lying to you, that is why he does not want you to eat the fruit. Because if you do you will be as god knowing good and evil. In other words you will not need God because you will be like him. This is the temptation of Satan, to be a god unto himself. So in a half-truth way he is doing what already has been done before.

But the interesting thing is what genesis says about death and knowledge of good and evil. It is not coincidence that the first death in the Bible in the next very chapter is a murder. We see right off the bat what "knowledge independent of god" brings. We see what kind of death comes from eating the forbidden truth.
This is the why the natural man becomes an enemy to God. One who is proud and sees himself independent of god with a false since of knowledge. If we really knew good and evil like god, then why does man struggle with so many moral issues? Why then is divine truth only accessed through revelation? We as man have bought into Satan's ideas here on earth. The very ideas that we rejected in the pre-mortal existence. Thus there is a need for an atonement.

Overthrow Attempt Chose Satan Why

Lucifer has his purpose but it answers a bigger purpose. It has been done time and time again, I mean someone has to be the bad guy right? His leading an overthrow was all with purpose.

Why Satan Chose To Attempt An Overthrow Studies Doctrine Mormon

There are several questions that I have about this certain topic. I know in the scriptures that it does not specify the amount of time that we spent in the pre-mortal or pre-existence. But was it a test living in the pre-existence to see whether or not we would rebel against our God? Was Lucifer's rebellion necessary before we came onto this earth? The way I see it was that, we all waited in the pre-existence with our Heavenly Father to see who would rebel, then the plan could could be carried out for all of his children. If lucifer did not rebel then who would? If no one did, does did that mean we would still be in the pre-existence because there wasn't an opposition to Heavenly Father or Jesus the Christ? I also don't think that rebellions like this would of happened over and over again like Mckay said.

Page 2 Overthrow Attempt Chose Satan Why

Name: Arizona LDS

Comments: best way I can explain it to you in a nutshell is to see the war in heaven as one event but the Adam and Eve scenario as a multiple event. You're right that the scriptures don't specify, but then again the scriptures don't specify a lot of things. That's why it's nice to have modern revelation.

Overthrow Attempt Chose Satan Why

I agree, Opposition comes from having a law, once you have a law you have opposition to either obey it or not. Two sides always come to be after a law is given. God has always given laws for his Children to obey, as long as there has been laws, and agency, there has been opposition, independent of any being.

This is a strange idea. That leads to many more questions about how this person still around in the pre-mortal life? Is this person on the same glory as Heavenly Father? Why would Heavenly Father allow his Cousin to be part of his Plan of Salvation? Also why don't we blame the cousin and not Satan for the fall. I mean why didn't the Cousin just step up and take charge instead of letting Satan do it?

For me satan came up with two ideas.
1. the idea of guaranteed salvation is too strong of idea. Even today people want Salvation with as little of work possible.
2. As you speak of Honor, I believe fully that is what Lucifer wanted. He knew the plan of salvation could make him be like his Heavenly Father (even to having the same power) but that wasn't good enough, he wanted the Honor. To be better than God. I can't see this idea existing anywhere, in any other system and working. What other system would promote others to overtake God's Honor?

Lucifer (not being a God) had power to travel to other worlds? Other Pre-mortal worlds? How did Lucifer gain such power and or permission?

What is it that Lucifer saw that was done on other worlds? (that worked?)
I assume you mean the idea of Salvation happening with out an Atonement?

How can that plan work?

I"m thinking you are taking part of the Temple (about the fall) and twisting it to be part of the pre-mortal life? The reason Satan temps Adam and Eve of the fruit is because he says he saw was it done on other worlds? I"m not sure if that is what you are talking about or not?

Nope?

God is God independent of what I do. He has the power. Now I do agree to some extent that me growing in dominion probably does add something to, or gives credit to Heavenly Father and his dominion. If all God wanted was Honor, then Satan's plan would have provided way more Honor then the plan of salvation.

The Atonement of Jesus Christ is more than just paying the price of Justice. It's actually making is better than we were. The point of this early life is not just to return to Heavenly Father, if that was the case why leave? It was to become more like him. This deals more than just paying justice off, its actually progressing and gain more light and Knowledge. Using the Atonement we can overcome things in the life, not just the effects of the fall, but also develop the attributes of Godhood. Satans plan did not provide a way for this, and thus as you know, can't get people to a state of Godhood.

Thus the reason the Plan of Salvation is perfect, and why Satan's plan would never work. You can't gain celestial Glory living by following a lower law. You can't grow.
Even more I don't know if Satan's plan ever took into consideration of the Resurrection, unless you just plan on people never to die.

Why Satan Chose To Attempt An Overthrow

Name: Detec

Comments: Why did Lucifer attempt an overthrow? Well someone had to start somewhere. Maybe he was asked to do it as a test. I think there is a lot more to it than what we know.

Why Satan Chose Attempt Overthrow - Page 2

Name: TruthDefender
Country:

Comments: On the scriptures in Alma 42, it is important to see the structure it was written in. There is a chiasmus between verses 22 and 23. The first poster only quoted verse 22. For more study on chiasmus read John Tvetness work. If you are not familiar, study up on it. I do not have the time to explain it all. But, I have broken it down into the chiasmus form for you. Each Letter has a corresponding Letter. A matches A as the pattern progresses to the climax of G. G matches G. These corresponding letters show corresponding ideas. The climax marking the most significant idea of the chiasmus.

As you see, G is the climax, stating God ceaseth not to be God. The point that Alma is making to his son, is not the possibility that God could be removed from his position. No! Rather, he is emphasizing, to a fornicating son, that Justice is as eternal, unchanging, and fixed as God is. That is the climactic point of this Hebraic writing style. Understanding this to be the context, and linguistic key to understanding the statement, it makes it easier to reject the notion that God has some potential to change. The scriptures are replete with evidence that God is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.

and most explicitly stated

Where did you learn of Satan? Or, of the plans of darkness? You must be aware that you learned from God. God brought to light, the things of darkness. Then why would you assume the principle is any different in Heaven? God taught us of the dangers of agency, and the blessings too. But, every person has an independent nature, and agency. We all started as undeveloped spirit agents. We had to exercise our agency, and develop it. We also gained knowledge from no knowledge at all. Agency is tied to knowledge, and limited by awareness and developmental state of being. Satan, along with all other spirits, in the process of developing agency had to make choices and wrestle with the nature of agency.

Satan became prideful. He wanted to be honored above God. He was jealous of Gods power, glory, and dominion. It was not enough to have what he possessed as a child of God. He wanted to take it from God. It was his pride, springing from his agency. That is why he sought to take honor from God.

The scriptures you have used to support your idea, are being applied inaccurately, and do not consider other scriptures, such as the ones I provided. Rather than elaborating on your ideas more, elaborate on the scriptures more. If you can find more support in the scriptures, quote them. Critical analysis by peers is the only way to filter out the erroneous assumptions. But, the scriptures must stand as a stronger foundation. I feel your assumptions are being promoted more than the scriptural foundation. Recalibrate your assumptions from the scriptures.

Source 1: Book of Mormon