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2 Nephi 25:23

I am involved in a discussion about LDS scriptures in another forum. The other person involved in this discussion claims to know a good bit about LDS doctrine, although I tend to think most of his knowledge comes from the anti-Mormon publications.

Anyway, he posted a fairly good question, and I thought that we might be able to discuss it here, so that I can get my thoughts and words straight before answering.

Are these two scriptures mutually exclusive? If not, how do you reconcile the language contained in them?

(I do have some good ideas about how to approach this, but I want to get some other points of view before I try to fully develop them.)

Nephi

I am not sure what you are getting at although I can come up with answers I would rather know some more specifics about the intent of the question as it relates to these scriptures.

2 Nephi 25:23 Studies Doctrine Mormon

The original question is trying to make it sound as if Mormons believe that we enter heaven through our works, because 2 Nephi 25:23 uses the words "after all we can do". This is, of course, in contrast to Romans 1:16 which uses the words: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.

Offtopic but, This is a small attempt to get involved in some light apologetics here, so that we can explore how to answer questions and challenges to our beliefs.

Nephi

I understand now, and I felt that is what you were getting at, but wanted to be sure. I met hundreds of people (mostly Born Agains) in England that talked about this subject. most of them were so brain washed into believing that they already have a full ticket to heaven that they did not want to believe they still had work to do. It was purely a matter of convenience - humans like the easy way. Besides the scriptures you provided there are more from each book that gives meat to both sides of the story - grace and works. James in fact emphasizes the importance of works, Christ talked about 'picking up your Cross' which denotes struggle and hard work. It is a topic that needs a logical thinking person to believe. I like to take it from the point of view that we are under a test... if it is a matter of just belief or just God 'rescuing us' then what would be the point? He wants to see what we will do and then fill in what we can't or in other words, God makes up the difference - whatever that may be.

Nephi

Thanks. I think this will help a bit.

I also went to the FAIR website to see what is said there. I have a couple of apologetics books as well that I am sure will help.

2 Nephi 25:23

Very quickly, here is a copy of what I eventually wrote about this subject.

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I have spent a lot of time over the last few days thinking about these two verses, reading them over and over, reading other, pertinent verses, and generally pondering their messages.

Actually, I don't see much difference between the two verses.

I see two ways of reading 2 Nephi 25:23.
1. If we do all that is within our power to do, if we believe in Christ, develop our belief into strong faith, repent of our sins, are baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, and continue on to follow the promptings of the Holy Ghost, still it is by the grace of God that we are saved.

2. I view salvation as a cooperative effort between myself and the Father, through Jesus Christ. So, in this view, it is after I, a frail and sinful mortal, have done what I can, then Jesus takes me and adds everything else needed.

Both of these views combine for me, to provide an excellent view of what the Atonement means.

Edited: Nighthawk on 17th Sep, 2004 - 7:26pm

2 Nephi 25 23

If Nephi was saying that we cannot be saved unless we have done all in our power, it would be a grim and hopeless doctrine. Nobody performs to the full extent of his or her potential all the time. If it took ALL we ever had the power and opportunity to do, Christ would still be the only saved being in all Eternity. But he requires our all in a different way - he requires a broken heart and a contrite spirit, a willingness to do our best and to repent when we don't. He requires honesty and faith, that we might have access to his unspeakable grace and mercy. His doctrine is truly one of peace for the imperfect, and hope that they may be perfected in Him.

2 Nephi 25 23 Mormon Doctrine Studies

Isn't that exactly what is meant by "doing all that we can do?" We do all that we can do when we do the best that we are capable as the people we are today while striving to be better people tomorrow.

It isn't expected that I be perfect. Of course, technically, there is always more I can do, but we are judged by one who knows us and understands us. He judges us based upon our humaness which means we will fall short. It is important that we are moving forward. I think if I choose to ignore all that I learn about the Gospel and live life how I think best I am not doing all I can do. If, however, I am making an honest effort to live righteously and fall short, but repent and try to do better, then I am doing all that I can do and he makes up the difference. I do think many LDS people focus far too much on their own works and miss the grace piece, but grace all by itself isn't really the answer either. I must still do my best to continue to grow and progress.