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9/11 Mosque - Page 4

Name: ILostMyFriend
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Comments: Heres what I gathered from this issue. Those who lost loved ones over 9/11 wouldn't want a mosque so close. Those who didn't couldn't careless. When you see the bodies fall and the buildings burn your whole perspective changes. Plus Christians don't go around flying commercial airliners into buildings.

Mosque

Any good Christian person could tell you the difference between Christians and Christian extremists. However most couldn't tell you the different between Muslims and Muslim extremists.

I could tell you that there was also a Muslim prayer center in the trade towers, however that's irrelevant because it's not the Muslim people as a whole who attacked the towers, it was the Terrorist organization which uses the teachings of the Koran, and the peoples shortcomings, to brainwash and train people to attack other countries. There have been similar things happen with Christian cults, and specifically one in... Serbia I believe? Killing 8000 people? I don't have a source so scratch that. But most Christians would dismiss that as "Extremists", not as "Christians".

9/11 Mosque Islam Studies

I can see that but there is a problem. The Christain world does not claim these cults and will actually tell you that they are not part of the Christian world. However, even the Imam of NYC says that denial of this building (although we allowed 100 others to be built) will be seen as a attack on the Muslim world and there will be consequences from such a action. I am assuming the the Imam considers himself a part of the Muslim world. Therefore...he is delivering the message or rather threat of action should the mosque not get built.

The Catholic Church routinely excommunicates those that do not practice the faith as prescribed. What the muslim world doesnt have is its own internal affairs to handle those that are not following the faith as prescribed...or maybe they are?

Page 4 Mosque

You want to know the consequences will be? More ammunition for the Islamic terrorist regimes to recruit people. However most Muslims are also significantly more religious then most Christians. I don't mean that as an insult to either. But events such as the koran burning would have horrible side-effects. I can't prove it, but it's similar to going and burning every church down in the united states. So you would then have the majority of the 1.6 billion muslims up in arms, instead of whatever the terrorist regimes can recruit.

On a different note. Did you just insinuate that those the Muslim institutions of religion catch 'straying' are being turned into terrorists? Cause albeit I was appalled by that statement, I cannot prove it wrong or right and I am now interested in researching it.

Mosque

What I am saying is that within Christianity (the major branches), we police our own. Should there be a group within the church that strays outside of the accepted teachings and principles, they are cast off. They can still have a church...but let's say that they cant call it a Catholic Church, Baptist Church, Methodist Church, etc... Cults are cast off from the church in general. Terroristic organizations within the major religions would definitely be excommuncated, but not apparently in the Muslim World. So I did not say that all muslim groups that are not practicing normal islam are terrorist, but I am saying that there are known terroristic groups within the Muslim Fold that have not been kicked out.

The Imam of NYC (I am assuming we can consider him a member of the Muslim World) says that the muslim world will consider a rejection of this mosque as an attack on Islam. Now was the granting of the 100 other mosque in NYC a vote of confidence...apparently not as this only appears to go one way. So the Imam says that if we don't grant the church the muslim world will consider this an attack on Islam and their may be consequences... Again, I am assuming the Imam of NYC is a member of the Muslim World...so what is he delivering to us? It is a ultimatum at best and a threat if you chose to look at it that way. So is the "moderate muslim world" now delivering messages to the US on behalf of the extremists?

Let's say we allow the mosque to be built. Does that buy us eternal peace with the Muslim World that the Imam speaks of? Probably not ...he speaks in politicaleese talking about a community that will be created. Again, we have 100 mosque in NYC, but this one is the only one that apparently matters and must not be moved one block further away.

A group from the Muslim World is free to take planes and plow them into buildings, but yet that group is still part of the muslim world? That group is responsible for many terrorist attacks...but they are still part of the fold?

The US did not burn down all the mosque after 911. Now I think we could see that this could have happened, but it didn't. What did that buy us? We didn't go after muslims after the first attck on the WTC back in 95...buy us anything...NOPE.

So we cant burn a Koran, because we might upset some. If we don't burn the Koran, what does it get us...peace? Hasnt been any Koran burning prior to 911 that I could find...still no peace.

I am more religious than you is no excuse for flipping out over the burning of a book or flag or characature.

I still say that it is ashame that we are more protective of some groups feelings than the rights of our citizens. You have every right to burn a Koran, should you want to. Just as they burn the Bible and stop it from even entering many muslim countries... Now, I will say that while you might want to torch your copy of the Koran...to get on TV and mass publicize its date and time or occurance...is potentially against the laws of encitement of a riot (like yelling fire in a theater), but that is a stretch, since not burning the book hasnt resulted in peace.

We are being held hostage against our beliefs as a country of freedom and free enterprize because of the threat of violence by the religion. Businesses around the NYC mosque that were not favored by the muslims were forced to shutdown. You wont find a liquor store or several other businesses looked upon badly by the religion near a mosque. Many of these were shutdown by the government caving into pressure from this community. Others were coersed out of existance. Why...because if we don't give them what they want it will be an attack on the muslim world.

I want muslims in the US, but I also want them to be US Citizens that respect the rights of all americans as well as their own. Right now...it seems more like a one way street to me because we don't want to upset the apple cart. IMO

9/11 Mosque

And your right, the should have respect for every other American. But I cannot find anything on your point about the businesses around the mosque being shut down. I'm aware that this happens all the time by not just mosques but many other religious institutions. But using the "This is an attack on islam" card is very wrong. And if I could find a good bit of support for this I'd be in complete agreement, but I'm not finding any support for this idea.

Though looking around I found this and more specifically a quote:

And this is what brings me to my first conclusion cause I see this all the time. "Muslims murdered my son" not "17 terrorists murdered my son". Following this logic, If I had a family member at one of these school shootings (apart from virginia tech) I should hate white people for killing my family member. But typically white people are the majority group, and as such we discern the difference between certain parts of the majority group (KKK, skin heads, etc.) but have some group act like they represent a minority group and do something good or bad, we will assume that is the entire minority group.

The way you presented your ideas regarding this subject though, as I remember from 08' as well when I joined, was very thought out. Anyways, burning a koran is a personal choice. Finding as many as you can, then burning them to send a "Message" to the Islamic world, albeit the U.S. Military tells you not to because they know that if it is done, many more U.S. Soldiers over there will die and quickly after the burning too, and that's just treasonous.

Though I know I read a few things a while back in regards to the society in the middle east. The "Moderate Muslim" or your average Muslim persons are actually now getting American T.V. (Which actually is increasing violence in their male kids, and increasing eating disorders across the genders, though specifically the women.) which is an interesting and almost disturbing concept. They are now being slowly absorbed into 'Western Culture' which us of said culture don't see as bad generally, but this also means they will loose their cultural identity.

However we've introduced consumerism and the pursuit of wellbeing to these people. You now have Car salesmen over there who probably do care about their cars and personal ventures more then what the Imam says. This is becoming more and more prominent through the years and it's sparking a lot of tension as Islam seems to be trying to ensure it keeps it's rooting into it's people. So to be quite honest, I don't think most of the 1.6 billion Muslims are really too concerned about anything other than, I don't know, feeding their kids and such. If they were actually all violently opposed to the U.S., well they certainly outnumber us 4-fold, and I'd imagine things would be much worse over there if they were all against us.

9/11 Mosque - Page 4

Religion can be blamed for the kernel of conviction, but obsession and insanity and maybe just pure psychopathology are to be blamed for the action of following through with the taking of lives.

True "Muslims" didn't murder anyone on 9/11, any more than true "Christians" or any other adherents to any other religion, mindset or philosophy that espouses love, goodwill, brotherhood or acceptance murder anyone - that isn't how real people with real integrity act. The moment you step across that line from active representative of your chosen cause of constructive good, to aggressive destructive force, you lose your membership status.

9/11 Mosque Studies Islam - Page 4

On Fox News they were discussing that the person involved in the development of the Mosque was voted 'Person of the Year'. That has made some in New York very angry including a fire chief who lost a son during the 9/11 attack.