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Freedom From Religion - Page 2

I dont think some of you know the reason why Frances government is doing this. I really is for a good reason. France has a huge population of Muslims right now. Theyre 2 main religious populations are Mulsims and Jews. Well we all know how well they get along. France is having a huge violence problem with its students and their violent beatings and fights. The government feels that since the parents are more or less feeding this problem then the government will help stop it. First course of action is since there is the religious antagonists starting this violence in schools, EVERYONE will not advertise any religious articles, beit crosses, headwear, whatever. Schools are meant to teach children in a safe environment and if the parents cant teach their "religious" children not to beat on someone of a different faith, then someone will. This all boils down to the parents instilling bad behavior into the child. I guarantee that if the Muslim children were not told by the parents that Judism is not the right religion or the the Jewish children werent told that the Muslim faith was not the correct religion, none of this would be happening. Religion has much to blame on in this world. The main reason this planet will never see a peaceful existance between humans is because of the difference in religion and culture. Not because of the differences itself but because all humans are too ignorant to rationalize the differences and how meaningless it all really is.

Religion Freedom

I know that I am quite aware of why France is doing it. Sorry, but I don't think there is ever any justification for taking away someone's civil rights in this manner. Religion to those who have a deep faith is central to their very existance. To tell them they can't follow what they believe their God has instructed them to do is wrong and also asking them to do something that puts them in a very difficult situation. Do they obey the law and face eterrnal damnation or do they fight the civil law, and be willing to die for their ultimate eternal salvation. I do not believe I could choose to go against what I believe my father in Heaven expected of me to appease any government. If I did, how would I reconcile that with my faith?

Also, since this law has been aimed primarily at Muslims and their headdresses, I see the explanation as an excuse. They aren't trying to protect the ones being beaten (since the Muslims are the ones mostly doing the beating), they are trying to strip the ones doing the beating of their religious identity. While it is true that is not just the headdress that is being prohibited, it has been acknowledged that the problem is with the behavior of the Muslim population and a fear of what happens to France as this population increases. The inclusion of other religious symbols is so as to not open discriminate against just one religious practice.

I say deal with the violence with the proper discipline and a no tolerace policy, not by taking away someone's individual civil right to practice their religious beliefs. When you take steps to prevent a group of people who are deeply religious from practicing their faith, you can expect more problems not fewer. I believe this is especially true in a faith that believes in jihad and the infidel in the manner of the Islamic faith.

Edited: tenaheff on 14th Feb, 2004 - 1:16pm

Freedom From Religion Beliefs Religious General

Tenaheff, I agree with you completely.

The problem isn't the headdresses, the crosses, the yarmulkes (sp?), or the stars of David. It is the fact that France has decided to let the Muslim minority become a law unto themselves. Yes, France makes a token effort to investigate the crimes, but they (just like the US) are so afraid of offending the Muslims, that they bend over backwards giving special consideration to the offendors.

Criminals MUST be punished. Banning the head coverings or other religious symbols won't help. It will most likely make matters worse.

NightHawk

Page 2 Religion Freedom

I totally disagree. France isnt banning them from practicing their religion thats just ridiculous. France is just saying that school is meant to be a place of learning without the threat of violence as it should be. If they have a problem with this, then take your child to a different school. This is the main reason why we have a lot of schools going with school uniforms. And before you guys start touting that religion is more important than what type of shirts or pants you wear... well I agree but technically is the same idea. You have the right to your religion just the same as you have the right to your type of dress. But since there are many schools where a kid can get beat up because of what they wear then they get to wear school uniforms. And guess what happened? Fights have dropped significantly and less problems. Go figure.


Edited: Viking on 16th Feb, 2004 - 4:14pm

Religion Freedom

Even schools that require uniforms will allow a yarmulke or head dress. It is a religious practice to wear these items so if you are prevented from wearing them, you are being prevented from practicing your religion. This is different from a christian choosing to wear a cross. This religious symbol is not a requirement of the faith, yarmulkes are for conservative jews.

This isn't possible for everyone. You are speakiing of public schools where the tax dollars of all pay so that everyone can attend. Are you going to allow conservative Jews to withhold a part of their tax bill so that they are not paying for a school that they cannot attend and follow the teachings of their faith? I doubt it. Not everyone can afford to pull their children out of public schools and put them in private schools. This is why public schools, in general, don't force uniforms or other restrictions that will offend. At least this is the casee in the US. I know some countries, for example South Africa, do have uniform rules and some other expenses which really does make it less than a free education. Ideally, I believe a public school should not require any extraordinary expense for attendance. This expense can be monetary or moral/religious, in my view.

Private schools can implement any rule they want because it really is your choice to send them or not. This really isn't the case for a public school student.

Edited: tenaheff on 16th Feb, 2004 - 5:40pm

Freedom From Religion

You just cant see it can you? Its like the old phrase, you just cant see the forest through the trees.

Freedom Religion - Page 2

I could say the same to you. However, I don't see your comment as being constructive, so what's the point. We simply disagree.

However, I don't think your comment is really a fair one. I have given my reasons for why I don't see it your way, so I don't really think it is truly not seeing the forest for the tree. I simply don't believe anyone has a right to prevent someone from following the teachings of their faith. I have given specific examples of what I think is being infringed upon and why I see it as wrong. So, rather than make such a pointless comment, why don't you respond to my specific objections. If you have valid points to counter what I have expressed, I would be interested in hearing them. Isn't that what a discussion is supposed to be about? It isn't so much about forcing your opinion on me or mine on you, but sharing why our opinions are as they are. At least, I think that is what a discussion should be. Are you saying that only your opinion counts and if I don't see it your way, it must just be that I have my eyes closed?

Edited: tenaheff on 17th Feb, 2004 - 4:27pm