Close Topic Options

Mixing Religion with Politics

[center] I'm Super Active [/center][table] [tr][td] Years a Member: [/td][td] 19 [/td][/tr] [tr][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr] [/table]
I want to clarify something that I think others may have an impression of about me, and that is that I mix religion with politics too much.  

That is not really the case because the truth of the matter is, I could care less about most politics, and I disagree with everyone with regards to something.

My defense of George W. Bush has very little to do with my political affiliations as a Republican.  I don't even agree with George W. Bush that much.  But there is honest criticism and then there is Bush bashing, and I don't tolerate Bush bashing the same as I don't tolerate bashing in general (suprized)  I have a tendancy to bash back at anti mormons as some of you know who have seen me on the other forum.  But that is not because of their difference of religion, it has more to do with their unjust bashing.  When I see someone bashing someone else because of their beliefs when those beliefs tend to lean towards good behavior, I defend them.  That is why I defend Jehovah's witnessess whenever I think they are unjustifiably bashed, that is why I defend anyone.  

Bush is a good man, he is a man who prays to God, he is a man with very strong standards.  He is not perfect and as one of my Bush bashing friends likes to point out, he used to get drunk a lot.  He repented of it.  He changed, and he tries to help others.  

Did I vote for George W. Bush?  The answer is I did.  I voted for him twice, because we have what are called primary and general elections.  In the Primary elections we vote for a candidate within our own party, in my cased being a Republican, I had the choice between some very good men in my opinion, Bush being one, John McCain being another, and Senator Hatch of Utah (a church member by the way) was another.  After praying about it I felt Bush was the right man for the job.  That does not mean that I think Hatch is a bad member of the church, I firmly believe that he is one of the elders that has been called to save the consistution when it hangs by a thread or at least a forerunner of those elders that will.  But his place is in the Senate, not the White House, that is where the Lord wants him.  John McCain also is a good man, however the Lord wanted him to stay in the Senate as well.  God wanted Bush to be the President of the United States because Bush has better patience than McCain does.  Bush is more prayerful about what he is to do, McCain if he were president would have nuked the whole world by now.  Not that I blaim him, that is probably what I would have done as well, the Lord has not called me to be President of the United States either, good thing.  

The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants teach us to appoint rightous leaders and the Church although it is politically neutral has said that we should seek out leaders that are honest.  In the case of the general election, that between Al Gore and Bush, the standard of the church although neutral towards candidates would have left Al Gore out, Al Gore has picked up some of Bill Clinton's bad habits, namely he lies.  

There are times when I begin to question George W. Bush and what he is doing as a leader, I know he is accused of being a war hawk, but actaully I consider him very patient, I've question why he does some of what he does but I'm prompted by the Spirit to not lose hope, he is an inspired leader who does listen to the voice of the Lord and who can recieve revelation.  As the Book of Mormon teaches us in times of rightousness the Nephites appointed leaders of their armies who had the gift of revelation in them.  That is the case now.  

To me the silliness of argueing that no stockpile of wmd have been found is as silly as the anti mormon arguement that to this day no non lds archealogist has been able to see the name of Zarahemla in a language of reformed egyptian found on the walls of any American city built before Columbus.  That is how silly that arguement is to me. Why?  Because the Book of Mormon teaches us that it is "by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of ALL things" we don't learn from the Holy Ghost only that the Book of Mormon is true, we learn the truth of ALL things from the Holy Ghost.

Politics Religion Mixing

QUOTE

But there is honest criticism and then there is Bush bashing, and I don't tolerate Bush bashing the same as I don't tolerate bashing in general (suprized)

Well, I tell ya, that's not the impression you give because as soon as someone says something about Bush that is critical you jump to defend the guy like if he really needs to be defended : and the fact, nobody is attacking him but giving honest criticism, I think everyone has the righ to disagree in the ways he handle things.

QUOTE

But that is not because of their difference of religion, it has more to do with their unjust bashing.

And who judges what is just or unjust bashing? :  You, right?.

QUOTE

I have a tendancy to bash back at anti mormons as some of you know who have seen me on the other forum.

Well, I have seen you in 'action' we can say and that's why it amazes me what you're saying because I have heard you 'bash back' and become very personal, calling names to other people and stuff...that's not bashing to me but insulting but I can understand why you did it, some of the antis are really annoyning but at the same time, I think in a couple of times, you kind of over did it. (example: when you call someone from the other forum, 'son of perdition').

QUOTE

Bush is a good man, he is a man who prays to God, he is a man with very strong standards.  He is not perfect and as one of my Bush bashing friends likes to point out, he used to get drunk a lot.  He repented of it.  He changed, and he tries to help others.

This is the part that I cannot understand of you and it kind of surprise me to think how naive you can be. I mean, you're saying all these things about Pres. Bush that MAY be true, but you don't know that for a fact, you don't even know the guy! he's not your personal friend or relative. And he's a polititian! come on, I want to believe at least you will take with a grain of salt the use of the word 'God' in every speech or certain things he says...I'm NOT saying that may not be true but at least you have to analize whether that's true or not. You sound like anything the guy says you believe him and that's scary!.

QUOTE

God wanted Bush to be the President of the United States because Bush has better patience than McCain does.  Bush is more prayerful about what he is to do, McCain if he were president would have nuked the whole world by now.  Not that I blaim him, that is probably what I would have done as well, the Lord has not called me to be President of the United States either, good thing.

: Ohhhokayyyyyyyyy. You 'like' the death penalty and then you would probably nuke the whole world by now if you was President. Oh yeah, very LDS oriented. : But at the same time God has chosen Bush to be the President? :

QUOTE

The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants teach us to appoint rightous leaders and the Church although it is politically neutral has said that we should seek out leaders that are honest.  In the case of the general election, that between Al Gore and Bush, the standard of the church although neutral towards candidates would have left Al Gore out, Al Gore has picked up some of Bill Clinton's bad habits, namely he lies.

True, but what polititan don't lie? : Do you believe that Bush is 100% honest in his dealings as President of the United States?.

In conclusion Mr. Brian, your thread is about Mixing Religion with Politics and you said you don't really think so. Have you read your own thread? lol You name God, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, The Holy Ghost and you even quote scriptures. : Now, are you still saying you don't mix religion with Politics? :

Mixing Religion with Politics Beliefs Religious General

It is not honest critcisim when say someone goes out of the way to take a topic like Armaggedon and hint that in some way Bush likes blood.  Especially not when the Prophet thinks otherwise.  

Honest critcism is not to call a guy dumb, accuse him falsly of having an agenda for Iraq's "oil".

It is not honest at all to even suggest that Bush only want's Iraq's oil and I will say it again, Bush from the get go has said he does not even believe the United States should rely on imported engergy, we should produce it ourselves.  SO when someone hints that his motives are all oil related, they either don't really have the facts OR they are not being honest.  For Bush and for me and for most Americans it has nothing to do with oil, it has to do with the fact that God has given us all unalienable rights and we stand to defend them, a decent people such as live in Iraq ought to have the right to govern themselves, to drill that home, that means that Saddam had to go.  I don't know why the fact that the majority of Iraqi's were happy with what the US did goes unnoticed by the Bash Bush crowed.  I'm convinced that it is only because of dishonesty.  

Bush is not a big fan of war, nor am I, but there is no such thing as peace when a peace deal is struck that only appeals to a dictator.  You say that Saddam should have gone, what was your better idea for getting rid of him?  I doupt you really have one.  Besides it was not only Saddam but the entire Baath party that needed to go.  It was the Baath party after all that led assasinations of former Iraqi presidents in order to establish itself.

Politics Religion Mixing

QUOTE

It is not honest critcisim when say someone goes out of the way to take a topic like Armaggedon and hint that in some way Bush likes blood.  Especially not when the Prophet thinks otherwise.

Oh gosh, you don't get it, don't you? when are you going to leave the Prophet out of every word you say about this war!!! :

QUOTE

accuse him falsly of having an agenda for Iraq's "oil

Where is YOUR prove he doesn't have an agenda for Iraq's oil?? You don't have one! you just talk by emotion. It's okay for a person to presume something but you reach the point like if you know everything that Bush says like if you're part of his team or something and you're not Brian, pleaseee!:

QUOTE

Bush from the get go has said he does not even believe the United States should rely on imported engergy, we should produce it ourselves.

Yeah, Bush said this or that or this or that : and you believe it because he SAID so?? :  

QUOTE

I don't know why the fact that the majority of Iraqi's were happy with what the US did goes unnoticed by the Bash Bush crowed.  I'm convinced that it is only because of dishonesty.

Oh yeah because of dishonesty, are you from out of this world?? Have you seen the people without water, electricity, food, and medicine? or I forgot, you're too comfortable in your little place right? : those people are dishonest too right? specially the little children! : You don't hear people complaining about basic needs that are not being met? Sometimes, I'm wonder if you live on this Earth or not...

And again my point will always be this one. Only because of what happened in September 11th, the government of the United States of America has decided to do something about dictators like the Taliban and Saddam BUT if the Sept 11th incident would never occurr, those same people will STILL in power. ONLY because Americans were touched in their own home and to their own people something was done. So when I heard I have to thank Bush for the 'world peace' I said 'BOLOGNA!!!!' ONLY because of their agenda and interests they suddenly care about how other people live in other countries under dictatorship??? gimme a break!

 

Politics Religion Mixing

"Yeah, Bush said this or that or this or that  and you believe it because he SAID so??"

Yes, do you believe that he is only after oil because others say so??  Sorry I take Bush over those who started that oil arguement, he has more crediblility, do you know why?  Because he tells the truth.  Besides, America does not profit from imported oil anyways, especially not him.  His family is after all in the oil business, mind you American oil companies profit from AMERICAN OIL, not imported oil and especially not from oil imported from the Middle East.  

And no I don't take things on Bush's say so but on his actions, which are the only real test of honesty.  Just like I don't take something on anyones say so.  But I would give them some benefit of the doupt.  

If you continue the arguement that this things with Iraq is all about oil I demand proof above and beyound the typical emotional arguements, spured by communist propoganda.  I'm not calling you a communist mind you, what I am saying is that the typical arguements made against Bush are in fact originating from the communist part.


"And again my point will always be this one. Only because of what happened in September 11th, the government of the United States of America has decided to do something about dictators like the Taliban and Saddam BUT if the Sept 11th incident would never occurr, those same people will STILL in power. "

Really?  You may have a point, because sad to say the international community would not justify us taking out dictators before 9/11, even if it was the right thing to do.  But be honest, if 9/11 never happened and we did go after dictators you would be holding the same possition you hold now, be honest.  My question to you if that is the case is why make irrelavant arguements.

"people live in other countries under dictatorship gimme a break! "

Okay, I'll write Bush, I'll tell him to wipe them out too.  Will you protest if the United States decides to go after all dictators? Name the countries under dictatorships.  Let me guess, China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, you name em, I'll agree with you we should wipe those dictators out too, but AFTER we stablize Iraq.  Iraq was an easy target, in fact most Americans wanted Bush to just send a nuke down the Tigris river on 9/11.  We all knew that Iraq had connection to terrorism, that ironically you seem to want to ignore.  Iraq was the logical next point in the war on terrorism.  Oil has nothing to do with it sis, they set themselves up by being Bin Ladin's chear leaders.  No other government in the world was a chearful for Bin Ladin as Saddam's.  

"Oh yeah because of dishonesty, are you from out of this world?? Have you seen the people without water, electricity, food, and medicine? or I forgot, you're too comfortable in your little place right?"

Yes and is that Bush's fault NO.  Like I said Bush bashing is Satanic in orgin, just look at the Communist web site and you will see.  If you were honest in your critcism of anything you would be blaiming Saddam for the problems HE has inflicted on HIS people, you would also be blaiming those governments elsewere that cannot govern their countries but with an Iron Fist.  You argue that America always wants its way in this world, well fine, if America did have its way in this world everyone would have the same lifestlye that American's have. We did not just stike gold in this country, this country was founded on true principles.  

"Where is YOUR prove he doesn't have an agenda for Iraq's oil?? "

I'm not the one that made the accusation.  Think about it this way, you know about the anti mormons I argue with all the time, well they set up an accusation and then they demand proof that their false accusation is false.  That is not the way it works, you make an accusation you back it up.

But I'll be nice to you this once, the policies that Bush has been trying to get the congress to pass aim at creating American independence from foriegn engery.  It is that simple, every talk he has given on the subject every piece of legislation he has attempted to pass has been aimed so that America does not have to have anything to do with international energy.  I'm sure that even though I told you that fact your emotions won't let go of the Bush bashing lies that you have allowed yourself to believe in.  Really your arguements against Bush are just the same as the anti's arguements against the church, and there is very little difference.  Just because someone is a United States President instead of a church President does not justify false accusations.  Like I said before anyone that choses to believe in the Book of Mormon teaching that we may learn the truth of ALL things by the Power of the Holy Ghost will understand what I mean.  Let me guess this is where you laugh, well laughing only shows a lack of sencerity.  Anti Mormons laugh when you tell them to pray to know the truth of the Book of Mormon.  Others laugh when they are asked to pray to know the truth of other things.  

Besides if this is about oil President Hinckely, the prophet, would not support the war as he has.  It is pretty simple to me.  Keep in mind that when you disagree with me you have to assume that President Hinckley is as dumb as Bush and I because we all agree on the same issue when it comes to Iraq.




 

Mixing Religion with Politics

I'm seriously beginning to wonder the purpose of this thread. There are multiple threads on the Iraq war and I think that this one is just another under a different title and on the wrong board. I actually think it has nothing to do with LDS deep doctrine nor the subject because its' contents are too focused on 'specific' objectives therefore it is moved to the Religious Beliefs and Traditions board.

Mixing Religion Politics

I've always been the first to say that those who bash Bush about Iraq, tend to have dictatorship like qualities of there own.

If I bring up something on an lds forum I'm told it belongs to the international board if I go to the international board I'm told the topic belongs in the lds board.  

Now that you moved this to the Religious beliefs and traditions fourm are you going to start lecturing me about how the rules tell lds members to go to the lds forums below.  

Why can't you just let those who have a different point of view express it for crying out loud.  I understand profanity not being allowed, but you have a bunch of rules to your forum which pretty much equal to a "don't you dare disagree with me this is my site" type of belief.  It is your site, right, if you don't want me here fine, but what is the point of having a place to discuss things if all you will do is move something someone else has said to another forum, or lecture them on how something is off topic.  Anyways, my point for bringing up the war on terrorism and George W. Bush in an lds format is because quite truthfully your Bush bashing goes against what the Prophet has taught.  I'm sorry, where does President Hinckey say it is okay for members of the church to be Bush bashers?  Answer he has not.  I'm also sorry because you guys seem to think that Non Gringo Mormons run on different rules and that Gringo Mormons have another set of rules, and somehow your rules are a little better.  

Here is something for you guys to listen to, it is loctated on the church's website:

https://lds.org/broadcast/memorialservice/0...,1608-1,00.html

Are there rules against being racist on this forum?  This statement is racist, prejudice or whatever else you want to call it:

"Oh yeah because of dishonesty, are you from out of this world?? Have you seen the people without water, electricity, food, and medicine? or I forgot, you're too comfortable in your little place right? "

I can give you a whole lot of things to think about in regards to me saying you may have dictator like qualities, you may not like me for saying such, but realistically, how does it come out that the two people who's likeability level is up the chart the most are the moderators?  I even voted you down just now to see if you can be voted down, and you can't.  If you don't like me calling this a dictatorship like forum, I can say it sure lack democratic qualities if that sounds better.  Saddam won over 99% of the vote in Iraq too in his made up elections.  

Mixing Religion Politics General Religious Beliefs

Brian, the point of the matter is you are out of control, you are posting your political agendas all over the forum. You are not giving heed to themes of the forums. You treat this site as though it is an LDS political battle ground and it is not. It is an international site. You use the international board to promote your political - religious doctrines on several threads, you do the same in the LDS Deep Doctrine section by starting a new thread to promote your beliefs when there is two threads about it already! Not only this but you are too specific for your own cause and sacrifice the spirit of unity of the members through name calling and sterotyping. It is a judgement call, and it is mine to make.

PS. For your information, our charisma level can be voted down, but so can yours. BYE!