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The right to sentence death! - Page 2

While I agree that from a biblical point of view mankind has the "right" to issue the death penalty, I wonder if christians should really be for it. I believe that in the Old Testament it is clear that God favors that as an appropriate punishment, yet in the New Testament we see the Savior showing love for all. In fact, in the case of the adulteress woman, the penalty for her crime was death. Yet, Jesus forgives her and tells those who wanted to condemn her and execute the penalty of death to do so if they were free from sin.

The main problem I have with the death penalty is that it punishes the criminals family more than it does the criminal. Once the criminal is dead, it is over for them, but their family members must live with the fact that he was killed by the government. This can easily brew more hatred from family members towards the government. I just don't think it is necessary. Life in prison, if, in fact, it meant life in prison without any opportunity for parole, in my opinion is sufficient.

So, while in an earlier post I said I believe mankind had the right to issue the death penalty from a biblical standpoint, I am really not sure that is true for those who accept the New Testament as scripture and view Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

death sentence to The

Tenaheff,

Your views are very understandable, but let me express another...

Punishment and love are not opposites, I would submit that - to paraphrase- the Lord chatises those He loves.

As for the OT/NT argument; that is heard so often. God did not change though. The only difference between the civic society of the Israelites and today is, as I understand it, they had entered into a covenantal society which bound them to higher laws (and thus to exile etc. if violated).

As for the Law of the Covenant (as it was called) in Moses's day, this was based upon eternal principles. One of those laws was that no one could be punished without accusers (not to mention the law of witnesses to confirm the accusation). It seems the woman taken in adultery (if she was) was being threatened with punishment unlawfully. By Christ's time it is doubtful there was much true justice in their system, nor can we be 100% sure about biblical translation and meaning.

It seems clear, however, that pre-meditated murder was one crime that the Lord said required the blood of the perpetrator.

[For those who are LDS we have confirmation that this still stands in modern revelation; for example...
"This divine law for shedding the blood of a murderer has never been repealed. It is a law given by the Almighty and not abrogated in the Christian faith. It stands on record for all time"¦" (Charles W. Penrose). See also First Presidency statement on capital punishment made by Wilford Woodruff, George Q. Cannon, and Joseph F. Smith in 1890) ]

One might also look to the effects of life-time imprisonment in terms of the burden suffered by those who must guard, pay for and otherwise provide for the incarcerated. Is it just others should do so when they are not the ones who have committed the crime?

Dubhdara.

The right to sentence death! Beliefs Religious General

Excellent points about the death penalty and the ways that Christians can (and perhaps should) view it.

But I think that we should also look at the cost to society, both for having the death penalty and for not having it.

Having the death penalty:

• Innocent people are killed
• May breed resentment
• Can create martyrs
• Can be unjust
• Can be used as a political weapon

Not having the death penalty:

• Dangerous predators may be released into society
• Society must maintain dangerous people for life
• Can create martyrs (Charles Manson)
• May breed resentment that murderers and rapists are provided lifestyles at taxpayer expense (although they are in prison).
• Punishment is not in proportion to severity of the crime (murder and stock fraud may get the same punishment)

I'm sure that there are a lot more costs that could be added to both lists.

Personally, I don't know of anything in the New Testament that indicates any teaching against capital punishment, particularly for such things as murder and rape. Yes, Jesus protected and forgave the woman caught in adultery. Was that a statement against ALL capital punishment? Or were there special issues in that case? (We could REALLY get a discussion going about that one!)

Many Christians claim that Jesus' proclamation of Love as being a foundational principle means that the death penalty is wrong. But which is the more loving act? Destroying a dangerous predator (Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer), or leaving the possibility open that they can once again prey on innocent people?

Society has a responsibility to protect its members. I believe that refusing capital punishment is to fail in that responsibility.

Page 2 death sentence to The

Nighthawk, I'm confused by this. He is NOT a martyr. At least I have never seen anything about him being one. Or are you referring to his followers? Who became a martyr because of him?
MARTYR:
Main Entry: 1mar·tyr
Pronunciation: 'mär-t&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin, from Greek martyr-, martys, literally, witness
1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion
2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle

Edited: AGene on 10th Jun, 2004 - 7:27pm

death sentence to The

While I agree that society has an obligation to protect its members, I believe life in prison without any possibility of parole does this. AND, it never ends the life of an innocent person. Just recently in Massachusetts a man was released from prison. He had been convicted of murder, and sentence to life in prison. Well, his conviction was overturned and the prosecution has decided not to seek another trial. What if this man had been executed?

And from another article about the same man:

Now, this doesn't mean he did or didn't commit the murder, but if you convict someone with false information, how can you be confident he did it? 30 years later, he is released. If his death penalty hadn't been commuted to life in prison back when the death penalty was abolished in Massachusetts, this man certainly would have been executed by now.

Edited: tenaheff on 10th Jun, 2004 - 8:10pm

The right to sentence death!

Tenaheff,

I try to address principles *but* you bring up some valid points about doing so...

For example, I believe British police should all be armed. I think this is right (my views on police forces in general would need to qualifty this but that's not important for this illustration (see end note) *but* I would not wish to see this happen until the people's right to keep and bear arms is restored.

In the case of the death penalty for pre-meditated murder (2 Ne. 9:35) or treason (exposing countrymen to murder, slavery and theft) we should implement time-homoured Common-Law principles: for example, if there is any reasonable doubt the person is found *not* guilty; there must be at least *two* (independent) witnesses (forensics cannot be one of these as it cannot be held to account as it is a non-personage), and all other aspects of just law and due process must be observed. It migth also be said that false witnesses should know and understand that they will suffer, should they be discovered, with the same punishment they were willing to allow the innocent defendant to suffer. That is only just.

Again, your position is understandable but it is quite clear to me that capital punishment is justified by the Lord and therefore there must be circumstances under which it can be performed (that it should be under present powers is a matter of debate).

Another aspect not covered is that if a government or leaders of government do not implement capital punishment when it is just to do so, the scripture says:

Dubhdara.

end note: PM if interested in an article which I believe informs us as to how policing should really be done in a just society.

The to sentence death - Page 2

He is a cause celebre, a "living" martyr to many. His followers, various loonies through the years who have tried to get him released from prison.

Obviously, I wasn't using the word martyr in the normal sense. And he probably isn't the best choice. All of the various terror leaders in prisons around the world, whose followers practice terror trying to get their "living martyrs" out of prison, when they should have been executed.

Saddam Hussein is one example. Osama bin Laden. If the US tries them, they will almost certainly be given life sentences, despite the hundreds of thousands of murders they are responsible for. Hussein will likely be tried in Iraq, and I don't think they are going to be very lenient on him.

I know, I'm rambling. Sorry. I used the wrong words, because I do have strong beliefs on this subject, and am not very good at putting together the right arguments.