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Eternal Progression In The Kingdoms

Name: Gordon

Comments: Question: Is there eternal progression in all of Heavenly Father's kingdoms (Celestial, Terrestial, Telestial)? And if there isn't, why does Heavenly Father appoint ministers to the two lower kingdoms of glory to instruct the inhabitants of each one after the final judgment has already assigned each person to his or her respective kingdom for all eternity? For what purpose is the gospel still being taught, etc. If individuals in the lower kingdoms cannot achieve a greater station or reward in the exercise of their faith. And, if Satan is not allowed to dwell in the eternities in a kingdom of glory, how then does the agency of man come into play in demonstrating an individual's on-going repentance and obedience to the higher laws of exaltation. What is the purpose for sending ministrates or angels from one kingdom to another if there is no eternal progression after the final judgment?

Source 1: D & C 76:86-88

Kingdoms The Progression Eternal

No

Who says they are there to "instruct"? I don't see it as them being taught, I see it more of them being watched over by there Father in Heaven. How do you see it they are being taught more?

Exactly! What is the point. The most people can learn is by the law they live by. The most those in the Telestial Kingdom can learn is Telestial Law.

How does Satan obey any Higher Laws? From the start we have always been taught there would be a day of Judgment. There is a time where we have to face our sins, and take our judgement what ever it is. Satan knows this too! But satan does get his kingdom, just its not one of glory.

Repentance only works if those turn to the Atonement.

To visit!

Eternal Progression In The Kingdoms Studies Doctrine Mormon

Name: Gordon

Comments: When has Heavenly Father ever sent angels or his representatives to just visit or observe without having the intent of providing on-going instruction to the ones he's visiting? How can the Telestial or Terrestial kingdoms be considered a kingdom of glory if there is nothing to strive for any more, no new doors to be opened...only the status quo for all eternity?

Kingdoms The Progression Eternal

Heavenly Father never forces anybody to obey. The choice for those to gain Celestial Glory was there for them. Its not like they missed the class, They had the opportunity to gain Celestial Glory, the reason they are in a lower kingdom is because they choose it.

I'm sure there are things to learn in the lower kingdom. But they are lacking in the full knowledge. But again that brings in the assumption that only thing for Heavenly Father and his angels to do are to teach. I think they can do more then just that.

Kingdom of Glory is a place where you would fill joy and happiness forever! If the choices you made through all your life where always Terrestial Choices, don't think you think a Terrestial Kingdom you would fill right at home? You would realize that this is where all your choices have lead.

On the other side if you have always made Terrestial Choices, and you ended up in the Celestial Kingdom, don't you think you would fill out of place? The reason there are three kingdoms is because God knows not everybody is going to make it. He wants his children to still have a kingdom, even if they reject Christ and the Plan of Salvation they get the Telestial Kingdom.

But more there seem to be no trust or Faith in the Judgement of God. The idea that eventually all would come to see the Light of Gospel, and eventually all would be able to get the celestial Kingdom if I had just one more day, shows that God's judgement is not just. If God judges somebody and they go to the Terrestial Kingdom (and gain a Terrestial body), the idea that if this person had more time, they would have made it to the celestial Kingdom? Then God's judement is lacking. Thats why God has said there will be a day of Judgement after that no work is preformed. We know we don't have forever to make it! This makes the test of this life Just for all!

Kingdoms The Progression Eternal

Name: Gordon

Comments: When talking about an endless or eternal judgment, are we not referring to the judgment of God, and not necessarily that the length of time of the judgment itself is endless or eternal?

I believe it is true that each of us will seek to be assigned to a place (kingdom) in the eternities where we will feel the most comfortable at first. However, I also feel that after a period of time in our so called "comfort zone Kingdom" we will begin to realize the limitations of that kingdom, and have the desire to explore the uncharted territory of the next higher kingdom of glory because of the divine birthright as children of God that will continue to burn within us.

To be confined in a room (kingdom) no matter how nice it is with all of the amenities at your finger tips, after awhile gets boring. I believe that as children of God, he has implanted within us His spirit so that eventually all of his children, who don't rebell against the Holy Ghost, will want to strive for their perfection in all of its manifest forms.

I believe with faith and the help of the Holy Ghost, residents in the Telestial Kingdom will be able to experience the blessings of the Terrestial Kingdom, and with faith and the help of Jesus Christ, residents in the Terrestial Kingdom will be able to experience the blessings of the Celestial Kingdom, while residents in the Celestial Kingdom will experience with faith and the help of Heavenly Father a new round of creation for themselves.

I think our God is a God of unconditional love and seeks to elevate all of His children throughout eternity to their highest station of responsibility and freedom which comes with that responsibility for which they seek.

Damning ourselves out of ignorance I believe will be overcome, but damning ourselves by rebelling against the promptings of the Holy Ghost will throw away all the keys that can open future doors for us in eternity for our (priesthood) progression.

Source 1: D & C 19:10-12

Eternal Progression In The Kingdoms

This is the idea, the Everybody should be saved! That God Loves everybody that no blessing should be kept from them. But, God is also a God of Justice, God has laws, and has to obey them. Even God's love can't overcome God's Justice. Satan's plan was that all be saved! That was no Heavenly Father's plan

When a commandment is broken, or more if a Lower laws is kept then the resultes are expected. This is eternal that is part of what makes God who he is!
God is looking for Quality not Quantity. No matter how much God loves his Children, he knew from the start not all would make it. Thats why he designed the plan of salvation the way it is!

Not sure if that is a question. Yes the Suffer of Judgement that those in the Telestial Kingdom are going to have suffer is limited in time. Its Eternal in the sense that is Gods Judgment, and God is Eternal. Its also Eternal in the sense that only God could change it. But why would God ever Change his own Judgement? Because of Love?

Lets remember who goes to the lowers kingdoms.

Telestial Kingdom is for those that Reject Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. They are taught the plan of salvation. They know what the Atonement is and how it can help them. They are taught that its either turn to God, or suffer themselves. (How well they understand that suffering is unknown). These choose to reject the Atonement, there is no part of them that wants to follow the Plan of Salvation.

They then are left to go to "Hell" or Outer Darkness for a time to suffer the torments of Satan. Heavenly Father better be pretty sure that these children deserve this judgement. There is no going back after that judgment is given.
God better know that if a given person was only given enough time, they would have made it. God is given his childen enough tests, and time to see if they will choose to follow him. If they heaven't made the choice by now (the Judgement) the no amount of time is going to matter.

Those in the Terrestial Kingdom, are those that knew the Gospel and to some extent understood Jesus Christ and his Atonement. They rejected the Atonement in mortal life for what ever reason, but they understand the Plan Heavenly Father had for them. They then die, and in the spirit world, they realized they want the atonement. They are given this chance to repent and accept the Atonement which they should have accepted before.

What would spur such a desire? Those in the lower kingdoms are in those kingdoms because of a lack of desire! They either didn't want to the atonement, or they realized they needed the atonement but only after death. Those in these lower kingdoms are not the ones striving for Celestial Kingdom, they never had a desire before, so why, after spending years and years in some lower kingdom would they finally have that desire? (even after all the opportunities given to them?)

Even more, they understood what the Celestial Kingdom was, they didn't want it! There isn't anything they are going to learn that helps them understand the plan of salvation better! The only thing that would change is time.

I think it is great that you feel that deep down people are good enough to want to get into the Celestial Kingdom. But there are people that don't want it! Heavenly Father has provided a way for all to hear the plan of salvation, each can grow as much as they want. But onces people make that choice that they don't want to choose Heavenly Father's path, they are then left to themselves.

Again, I think its great that you feel this way. But again was are assuming those in the lower kingdoms well get bored. That they will end up realizeing after millions of years that they made the wrong choice.

Those in the Telestial Kingdom, already rejected the atonement, why would they then accept it after so many years?

Those in the Terrestial Kingdom actually already changed, and accepted the atonement in the Spirit world, they probably do desire the Celestial Kingdom at this point in life, but because of there choices they get the Terrestial Kingdom. There isn't anything that says, stay in the Terrestial Kingdom for a couple of years and work on your comment to Heavenly Father then I'll let you in. Those in the Terrestial do want more, but because of there choices they get the Terrestial Kingdom as there judgement. Thats the Law God set up! Those in the Terrestial Kingdom knew that! I don't see how, after so many years they would be allowed into the Celestial Kingdom? I don't see what else they could do?

Why would the holy Ghost work on somebody better then when they were here on earth and in the Spirit world? What is the Holy Ghost going to teach them, they haven't already been taught? There isn't anything. Those in the Telestial Kingdom understand the atonement and Jesus Christ, they are taught it enough to make the choice to reject it! What is going to change down the road that they light turns on? There isn't anything!

Again, its not a lack of faith here. Those in the Terrestial Kingdom, had the Gospel, turned there backs on it. They realized this in the Spirit world, they had the faith to accept Christ and his Atonement. But they did it to late. These are ones that missing out, because they already had the Gospel! Thus they are judged accordingly. These Accepted the Plan of Salvation. There really isn't any more Faith they need. The problem is, they had that chance, and blew it.
If anybody is able to progress it would be those in the Terrestial Kingdom, but really they would be able to progress before the Judgement. There isn't anything more they could learn, its not a matter of knoweldge it a matter of applying that Knoweledge. And there isn't a chance for them to do that anymore after the judgement. I think thats something we are both missing. Having the commandments taught to us is one thing, the real test of this life is we can obey them. Sure those in the lower kingdom can be taught the Celestia Law (assuming God allowed Celestial Gospel Doctrine class). But how would they be able to apply that knowledge? They wouldn't. There is no way for any test to happen after the judgement.

Its not out of ignorance or rebelling agasint the Holy Ghost. Both are given to these people. They made the choice to go a different direction. When they make that choice, they go where it leads!

Source 1: D & C 19:10-12

Those that suffer for there own sins are those that go to the Telestial Kingdom. There is no way in the world that mortal beings can suffer for breaking of a Celestial Law. This is why Jesus Christ was needed.


But does the Love of God extend to those in pre-mortal life? Well those in pre-mortal life get to have a body? Well Satan, at some point in time, be able to gain Celestial Glory?

Eternal Progression The Kingdoms

Name: Gordon

Comments: The question is: Is it possible to advance from a lower kingdom to a higher kingdom?

Our church teaches us that little children that die before the age of accountability will enter the Celestial Kingdom. Yet, what tests have these spirit beings been subjected to that test their agency in response to good and evil choices? Doesn't it seem unfair, that one child comes to earth and is quickly snatched up to heaven before being accountable for his actions, while the other child lives on this earth as an adult and yields to evil choices that he has been subjected to?

If the one child who dies before the age of accountability can be taught the Plan of Salvation without demonstrating "agency" or physical obedience to the Laws of God in the next life and progress, why can't the child who lived a life as a sinful adult be taught and progress as well?

If indeed we are all the off spring of God, our Heavenly Father, who wants to endow us with his divine character as well as his body; cannot God establish new parameters unknown to us, to continue the refinement of our character in each of the lower kingdoms and still be just and fair to all of his children?

Which one of us, seeing a brother or sister suffering in a lower kingdom wouldn't want to reach out and try to uplift his or her spirit?

And if God doesn't think it robbery to make us equal to Him, why should we think it is impossible for God to make a life long sinner equal to those that have already been saved?

Wickedness was never happiness. I believe that God created all of us with the desire to be happy. It is this quest for happiness which I believe that has been born within us, that will eventually change even the most sinful of beings, bringing forth their progression as children of God as long as they keep this spirit or quest alive within them.

Consequently, if we lose the Spirit or sin against the Holy Ghost we will completely lose our identity as children of God as well as our quest for happiness which I believe is key motivating desire for eternal progression.

Source 1: Philippians 2:6
Source 2: Alma 41:10

Eternal Progression The Kingdoms Mormon Doctrine Studies

I see two questions on hand. First...can we progress in any kingdom in the life to come, and why are messengers sent to the other kingdoms?

The second can be answered by the first.

You can progress from a lower kingdom to a higher on. (Excluding outer darkness where you have no progression. How you get there is another topic that I will answer if you would like, but I generally know and also know to be virtually impossible according to Pres. Kimball.)

Let us first start with the scripture in D&C 19. Here God is talking about His endless/eternal torment. The word eternal has two meanings. One: with out end, and the other is "God's type." So if we reread the scripture knowing that...it would read just as verse 11 does. Eternal punishment is God's type of punishment. Now let me prove this...go to Alma chapter 36, and ready verse 12 "but I was racked with eternal torment" yet we know it was not without end because Alma was forgiven 3 day later and became one of the greatest Prophets of the Americans.

So all this says that our "punishment" in the life to come is endless in that it is God's type, but not endless in that it has no end.

Now I pose you a question. What is the point of getting sealed as a family if you cant be together? There is no point. Elder Packard said

This clearly says there is progression. Now this DOES NOT mean that that child will not have to repent! They will and they will have to suffer (D&C19:17) for their sins if they don't use the Atonement in this life. They will suffer the eternal torment like Alma, but they will in TIME...God's time reunite with their righteous parents in the celestial kingdom.

Just remember this one quote

Hopefully this makes some sense...I can clarify if you need me to. I also have more quotes and scriptures if you need.

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