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LDS Perspective: Gay Marriage - Mormon Gays - Page 21

Perhaps the harder test is realizing that we are the choosers of our own destinys and no others. We are responsible for ourselves and should make no decisions regarding anyone else. I believe that it is harder to watch someone make wrong choices, and possibly learn from them, than it is to make the choice for them. This is something that all parents learn at some point.

I don't personally believe that you are a bigot, Quasar, but your statements tend to reflect a bigoted viewpoint. Bigotry, by definition is:

Random House

This undercurrent of bigotry within the LDS church is a disease. It is not reflective of the doctrines or spirit of the church. It is not only your specific rantings Quasar that I base this undercurrent off of, but many other instances of intolerances by a growing a minority of people in the church.

My beliefs on this subject, if one has not guessed them already, are based on the basic principle that we are here on this earth to be tested. We all fought in the pre-existence for the right to be tested. Why we now feel that it is okay to make decisions for someone else is beyond me. I feel that my beliefs do not defile the kingdom of God, conversely I believe that forcing our moral values on someone, even though we know them to be right, does defile the kingdom of God because it is a mockery of His greater plan.

And yes, if I am intolerant of bigots, I guess that makes me a bigot.

Edited: bobnbrittw on 11th Nov, 2008 - 3:59pm

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bobnbrittw

Oh my friend.

Calling anyone a bigot who does not agree with amending the long held definition of marriage as between a man and a woman seems odd to me. This would imply that anyone who voted yes on prop 8 or Arizona 102 are Bigots because they do not want society to define marriage as something other then between a man and a woman.

I could say that the charge can go both ways (but I cannot, as I just think we just have a difference of opinion). Those on the other side are equally convinced of their own rightness and the utter wrongness of our side (as seen in the protests around some Mormon Temples.)

In the definition below, I would argue, that both sides are equally assured in the validity of their own arguments and convinced that the others must be mistaken or mislead

Definition of Bigot

We are all bigots, or we are diferent people with different views.
Using a word such as bigot to label the opposite side without acknowledging ones own biases does not help ones own argument. It in fact makes people defensive against any more discussion. The trenches in the war of ideas are dug deeper, to the point, where discussion becomes two opposing sides shooting behind a wall of self imposed idealism.

LDS Perspective: Gay Marriage - Mormon Gays Studies Doctrine Mormon

I looked at your profile. Hope you don't mind. You are temple sealed. I don't even have a temple recommend and feel more ticked off than you about this whole thing with those righteous none bigoted activists desecrating the temple. And trying to take away people's free agency to vote.

You are wrong. I am a bigot and proud of it. So are you.

There is that little miss hap with satan. You see he had to be kicked out by Michael and company because he had some destructive beliefs. I am sure that homosexuality may have been one of them, or it latter evolved into that. But you are right the same war that existed there exists here. Eventually we will have to kick out groups that promote pedophilia, homosexuality, murders, thieves and all forms of secret combinations in order to survive. Just like we did before. We will just have to clean house eventually, or God will. I want to be in a society where these sorts of things aren't constantly shoved down my throat. I believe that they are interfering with my free agency and don't want to be in the same society as these sorts of people in the next life. Hopefully this one. They want to be around moral people not the other way around. I wouldn't raise my kids in a gay community. I don't think they hold the same moral values.

Who is forcing morals? Have you seen the school sex education curriculum on homosexuality. These groups are well funded and they are teaching kids how to preform homosexuality and other gross sexual sins. I know because this is what I was taught in school. They seamed to be more concerned with me being tolerant than my actual education. I have had to educate myself. There seams to be a lot of homosexual propaganda and it usually involves a bunch of naked dudes marching and dancing in public like christmas trees having an epileptic seizure.

I do believe that some homosexuals are mistreated and they should be given the respect that every human being deserve, but to hell with their sensitive training groups that have their screwy agenda.

My conclusion is that they should practise all of the free agency they want just like satan did. And when it is all said and done these institutions can be kicked out just like satan was. That was us exercising our free agency of separation before. God willing I will live to see it happen again. We will have to put them somewhere for a while. It will be one big cursed miserable community full of all types of distasteful people. I think that would be called hell.

I don't know what makes up homosexuals. I don't think they are less. I believe that they are our siblings. Perhaps many of them were molested. I am not qualified to judge each individual, but they have to understand that what they are doing is wrong and it is a disease with no known cure and if they want to be a part of the upcoming successful society then they will have to follow the rules. I think they are mislead and confused. I think we can all relate to that.

I am sure Satan felt the same way when he got kicked out. I am sure him and his minions felt as though we made decisions for them. We made decisions for ourself and didn't want him around anymore. I think it had something to do with wanting complete power and control and wanting to dethrone the father. Now he is stuck on this miserable planet at the edge of the galaxy where he cant leave. I think it is hilarious. Now he has mislead homosexuals and other groups in order to just control this planet. We are not doing our homosexual brothers and sister any good by encouraging bad behavior. It isn't good for their souls either.

Page 21 Gays Mormon Marriage Gay Perspective LDS

The comical thing about this is gay activists want us to be more accepting about being gay than we are about plural marriage. How that works out I don't know. I'm just waiting to see when there will be someone fighting for their right to dress up as the opposite sex and hold high office.

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dbackers:

I understand that this is somewhat destructive to the argument, but I felt like it was needed. I would not label everyone on the other side of the argument as a bigot, and in fact did not. I did say that some comments were bigoted in nature. Many of the comments that I have seen in this thread and elsewhere are crass and vulgar. I would label these comments as coming from a bigoted viewpoint. We can have healthy discussion without involving such measures. I was tired of it.

Quasar:

I would be careful how you categorize Lucifer. Just because he is performing the essential duty of the tempter does not in anyway mean that he enjoys performing the sin. I do not believe that the reason he was kicked out of Heaven was for his sin loving beliefs, but for his plan to take away our free-agency to choose our own destiny. Remember, with his plan we would have all made it back, but the glory would have been his.

LDS Perspective: Gay Marriage - Mormon Gays

He tried to take our free agency...Think about that. He is still doing it today and he uses things like homosexuality to do it. No one is forcing homosexuals to not practise their free agency. People that vote against or don't recognize 2 men as a married couple are not interfering. It is the other way around. Recognition compromises people moral and belief structure and the very society they live in.

We would not have made it back under lucifer. That was his promise but his promise was flawed. We would have been nothing but mindless slaves under him (a lot like socialism). He would force us to do the right thing. He didn't care about us. He only wanted power and whatever good he may of had in him before he fell is gone now. It kind of sounds like you are defending him a little bit. Your the one that might want to be careful. Fear is a form of worship to him.

LDS Perspective Gay Marriage Mormon Gays - Page 21

This argument in my opinion has nothing to do with Free Agency. It may be an issue with restricting some freedoms, but it is impossible to take away ones free agency (The freedom to act under circumstances as they are, not as we would like them to be).

Elder Oaks stated in
Free Agency and Freedom (This has some interesting evidences that I suppose could be used to support both sides, therefore I will show the source)

Source 1

As I have discussed before in some other discussion, Government has the unfortunate job of having to restrict the freedom of some group in order to make laws (all laws restrict the freedom of the individual to do an act that they would like to do)

From Elder Oaks
Free Agency and Freedom

In this case, the eccentric desires of the relatively few, are destroying the traditional view of marriage that the majority has held for thousands of years. I believe that government has a place in protecting marriage, because it is under attack from a relatively new concept (state sanctioned same sex marriage) and those who support marriage between a man and a woman have a right to keep this definition.

LDS Perspective Gay Marriage Mormon Gays Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 21

Here are a couple of questions:

1. What is the official position of the church about gay marriage

2. Why does this position affect members' political stance so much if their first allegiance is to God and not man?