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Related Information to The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough?The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? - Page 19 of 33
I'll go back to the scriptures for - Page 19 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 17th Aug, 2009 - 1:12am
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Are Mormons meant to follow blindly? We may say no, but if you disagree what do you do? Pray UNTIL you believe? Should we believe that all that is written and said by the Modern Prophets is correct and infallible? If so, then why do we have to pray about it? Is it for us to believe what they say or really to find out if that is what we ought to be doing? Controversial Mormon Issue.
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The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? - Page 19
One of the most famous talks by President Benson is "Fourteen fundamentals in following the Prophet" he said:
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| Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works. |
What are your thoughts on that statement? In that same talk he explained this point with a story:
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| President Wilford Woodruff tells of an interesting incident that occurred in the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith: I will refer to a certain meeting I attended in the town of Kirtiand in my early days. At that meeting some remarks were made that have been made here today, with regard to the living oracles and with regard to the written word of God. The same principle was presented, although not as extensively as it has been here, when a leading man in the Church got up and talked upon the subject, and said: "You have got the word of God before you here in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants; you have the written word of God, and you who give revelations should give revelations according to those books, as what is written in those books is the word of God. We should confine ourselves to them." When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, "Brother Brigham, I want you to take the stand and tell us your views with regard to the living oracles and the written word of God." Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and laid it down before him, and he said: "There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now," said he, "when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books." That was the course he pursued. When he was through, Brother Joseph said to the congregation: "Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth." (in Conference Report, October 1897, pp. 18-19) |
Thoughts?
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The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? Studies Doctrine Mormon
But then years later President Joseph F. Smith said:
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| "It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teachings of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they don't square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man's doctrine. "You cannot accept the books written by the authorities of the Church as the standards of doctrine, only in so far as they accord with the revealed word in the standard works. "Every man who writes is responsible, not the Church, for what he writes. If Joseph Fielding Smith writes something which is out of harmony with the revelations, then every member of the Church is duty bound to reject it. If he writes that which is in perfect harmony with the revealed word of the Lord, then it should be accepted." (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, pp. 203-204) |
Page 19 Enough That So Prophet Mormon The
That is my main problem - consistency - and as I have said before the - source - what verification do we use if we cancel the scriptures. Then you have one Prophet saying 'x' and the other saying 'y'. What will be used to verify x and y if we just follow the Prophet solely? The golden answer will be the Spirit and prayer. However, we are told if we get an answer of disagreement we are in the wrong.
Enough That So Prophet Mormon The
A couple more statements from that same talk by President Benson:
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| President Marion G. Romney tells of this incident which happened to him: "I remember years ago when I was a bishop I had President Heber J. Grant talk to our ward. After the meeting I drove him home "¦ Standing by me, he put his arm over my shoulder and said: "My boy, you always keep your eye on the President of the Church and if he ever tells you to do anything, and it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it." Then with a twinkle in his eye, he said, "But you don't need to worry. The Lord will never let his mouthpiece lead the people astray." " (Conference Report, October 1960, p. 78.) |
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| President Marion G. Romney, "It is an easy thing to believe in the dead prophets, but it is a greater thing to believe in the living prophets." And then he gives this illustration: "One day when President Grant was living, I sat in my office across the street following a general conference. A man came over to see me, an elderly man. He was very upset about what had been said in this conference by some of the Brethren, including myself. I could tell from his speech that he came from a foreign land. After I had quieted him enough so he would listen, I said, "Why did you come to America?" "I am here because a prophet of God told me to come." "Who was the prophet?" I continued. "Wilford Woodruff." "Do you believe Wilford Woodruff was a prophet of God?" "Yes, sir." "Then came the sixty-four dollar question, "Do you believe that Heber J. Grant is a prophet of God?" His answer, "I think he ought to keep his mouth shut about old-age assistance." "Now I tell you that a man in his position is on the way to apostasy. He is forfeiting his chances for eternal life. So is everyone who cannot follow the living prophet of God." (Conference Report, April 1953, p. 125.) |
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| In a general conference of the Church, President N. Eldon Tanner stated: "The Prophet spoke out clearly on Friday morning, telling us what our responsibilities are "¦ "A man said to me after that, "You know, there are people in our state who believe in following the Prophet in everything they think is right, but when it is something they think isn't right, and it doesn't appeal to them, then that's different." He said, "Then they become their own prophet. They decide what the Lord wants and what the Lord doesn't want." "I thought how true, and how serious when we begin to choose which of the covenants, which of the commandments we will keep and follow, we are taking the law of the Lord into our own hands and become our own prophets, and believe me, we will be led astray, because we are false prophets to ourselves when we do not follow the Prophet of God. No, we should never discriminate between these commandments, as to those we should and should not keep." (CR, October 1966, p. 98.) |
The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough?
Here are a few more pertinent quotes.
| QUOTE |
| Search the scriptures-search the revelations which we publish, and ask your Heavenly Father, in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, to manifest the truth unto you, and if you do it with an eye single to His glory nothing doubting, He will answer you by the power of His Holy Spirit. You will then know for yourselves and not for another. You will not then be dependent on man for the knowledge of God; nor will there be any room for speculation. (TPJS, p.11) |
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| Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled. What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away .... (D. & C. 1:37-38) |
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| How often has it been taught that if you depend entirely upon the voice, judgment, and sagacity of those appointed to lead you, and neglect to enjoy the Spirit for yourselves, how easily you may be led into error, and finally be cast off to the left hand? (Brigham Young, J.D. 8:59) |
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| Reading the experience of others, or the revelation given to them, can never give us a comprehensive view of our condition and true relation to God. (TPJS, p. 324) |
| QUOTE |
| "Now those men or those women who know no more about the powers of God and the influences of the Holy Spirit than to be led entirely by another person suspending their own understanding and pinning their faith upon another's sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory to be crowned as they anticipate. They never will be capable of becoming Gods." (Brigham Young, J.D. 1:312) |
From what I see in these quotes, even if the Prophet will never lead us astray (which I hold is a completely false doctrine), he cannot lead us to exaltation. Exaltation is a personal journey, custom-made for each individual by the Holy Ghost. "Godhood" is completely independent. Nobody can follow another into that state.
One final quote from Brigham Young.
| QUOTE |
| "Let every man and woman know themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates or not. This has been my exhortation continually." (Brigham Young, J.D. 9:150) |
So, since all the quotes concerning "follow the Prophet" are direct contradictions of this, was Brigham Young a false prophet? If he was just expressing an opinion, how do we know that all of the others weren't just expressing an opinion?
The Mormon Prophet So That Enough - Page 19
Nighthawk, but the same person you quote (Brigham Young) said the words of the living Prophet are more important or pertinent than the Scriptures but in other parts he seems to think differently. Seems contradictory. So how do we choose what is doctrine, opinion and what it seems to be a forgetful memory?
The Mormon Prophet So That Enough Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 19
I'll go back to the scriptures for that answer.
| QUOTE |
| "And every one that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father." (D&C 84:47) |
I completely understand what Brigham Young was saying. Early leaders - Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and Heber C. Kimball in particular - revealed many wonderful things to us. Joseph Smith explained that he was constrained by the Saints' unbelief from teaching far, far more. When a Prophet reveals something that goes beyond what the scriptures teach, or what we think they teach, then we need to pay special attention. When they clearly and unequivocally contradict either the scriptures or previous Prophets, then we need to be extremely careful to get confirmation from the Spirit. Of course, if we want exaltation, we should be getting this confirmation on all subjects.
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