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The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? - Page 8

Oh okay, I just replied to what I understood of your message.

I agree with you! I agree that we must have the companionship of the Holy Ghost to guide us, and receive personal revelation.

But that's what I was trying to say by 'black and white' you say: "if we don't actively seek out how to receive revelation, on a constant basis, we will not attain a Celestial Glory". I heard things like this pretty often in Church, "If you do this you will inherit the Celestial glory' 'If you do that etc etc etc". Personally, my own thinking and feeling, I do not think is so 'written', I think we will obtain it based on our own circumsntances and of course based in what Heavenly Father decides, that's why I said before we will be surprised who will obtain the Celestial Kingdom and who will not.

Enough That So Prophet Mormon The

"Our safest course is to follow the example of the Savior, and our security
is to listen to and follow the direction of his prophet, the President of
the Church."

(James E. Faust, "These I Will Make My Leaders," Ensign, Nov. 1980, 3)

The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough? Studies Doctrine Mormon

Clyde J. Williams, "Following the Prophets: A Book of Mormon Perspective," Ensign, July 2000, 19


Today, as in Jacob's day, some "despise the words of plainness" spoken by the prophets because they seek for mysteries that cannot be understood (Jacob 4:14). This course of action places one in spiritual danger. Elder Dean L. Larsen, an emeritus General Authority, described this condition:

"They were apparently afflicted with a pseudosophistication and a snobbishness that gave them a false sense of superiority over those who came among them with the Lord's words of plainness. They went beyond the mark of wisdom and prudence and obviously failed to stay within the circle of fundamental gospel truths which provide a basis for faith. They must have reveled in speculative and theoretical matters that obscured for them the fundamental spiritual truths. As they became infatuated by these 'things that they could not understand," their comprehension of and faith in the redeeming role of a true Messiah was lost, and the purpose of life became confused. A study of Israel's history will confirm Jacob's allegations" ("Looking beyond the Mark," Ensign, Nov. 1987, 11).

"The choice not to take prophetic counsel changes the very ground upon which we stand. It becomes more dangerous. The failure to take prophetic counsel lessens our power to take inspired counsel in the future. The best time to have decided to help Noah build the ark was the first time he asked. Each time he asked after that, each failure to respond would have lessened sensitivity to the Spirit. And so each time his request would have seemed more foolish, until the rain came. And then it was too late.

"Every time in my life when I have chosen to delay following inspired counsel or decided that I was an exception, I came to know that I had put myself in harm's way. Every time that I have listened to the counsel of prophets, felt it confirmed in prayer, and then followed it, I have found that I moved toward safety. Along the path, I have found that the way had been prepared for me and the rough places made smooth. God led me to safety along a path which was prepared with loving care, sometimes prepared long before" ("Finding Safety in Counsel," Ensign, May 1997, 25).

Page 8 Enough That So Prophet Mormon The

Great quote Farseer!!! this is what we were talking about, not just follow blindly what the Prophet says but to confirm in our hearts through inspiration and prayer.

Enough That So Prophet Mormon The

First off, Nighthawk, you are a breath of fresh air! I have read all the posts of this thread and I find your remarks, well, remarkable. It's like I myself was writing them. Don't be surprised if you find me privately contacting you. At least as far as this thread goes, we are obviously kindred spirits in the way we view the gospel.

My reply to the question of the thread, The Prophet said so, is that enough? is a resounding, NO!

The example of the saints of Berea apply in this and all instances.

Acts 17: 1-12

We are to use the scriptures as our measuring stick and measure all things, no matter from whence they come, even from our church leaders, by the canonized scriptures, and then to rely upon the spirit of prophecy and revelation to guide our decisions. We all should have the spirit of prophecy and revelation, which is the gift of the Holy Ghost, and we all should have the scriptures, so each man and woman of this church is backed up against the wall. If we blindly follow any person, in the church or out of the church, without consulting with the canonized word of God and seeking and receiving the confirmation of the Spirit of God, we will not be justified.

At the last day, the statement, "Lord, Lord, but he was your prophet and did I not follow his words?" will not be enough if that prophet led you astray. I am also aware, as apparently Nighthawk is, that the prophecies about these last days concerning the church are, to say the least, not the rosiest. Corruption has found itself in the church in the past and present. Satan has sent his servants to infiltrate all areas of the globe, is it not logical to assume that he has also sent them to the Lord's church? Can we logically assume that the church has not been infiltrated? is not currently infiltrated?

If we all acted as the Berean saints, there could be no infiltration, because there could be no deception. A people who consults with the scriptures and seeks spiritual confirmation first before accepting someone's doctrine as fact can't be deceived. A people who merely believes another's words because it "sounds right" can be deceived. Our memories are poor. We need the scriptures to get the facts right. We need personal revelations of the Spirit to make wise decisions when comparing the scriptures to what we hear preached at the pulpit.

Because the latter-day saints are not perfect and are in the habit of a form of idolatry I call "prophet worship," the latter-day saints can EASILY be deceived and it is easy to imagine that our church can and has already been infiltrated by those on Lucifer's side. A very blatant example is finding a member of the Council on Foreign Relations as a member of the Seventy, a General Authority. If that isn't evidence of infiltration, I don't know what is.

Any doctrine preached from the pulpit which contradicts the scriptures should be considered false doctrine and discarded. The doctrine of infallibility, which is preached from the pulpit is foreign to the latter-day saints. This is a Catholic doctrine. It is non-scriptural and is blatantly false. The scriptures say the opposite.

Doctrine and Covenants 3: 4

makes it clear that no one is exempt, not even the prophet. No one is infallible and anyone who preaches this false doctrine is a false preacher, at least on that point.

Doctrine and Covenants 20: 32

states that there is a possibility of falling from grace. We all fall short, even the best of us.

There seems to be some misconceptions on this board about what constitutes anything binding upon the church, as it comes from the leaders of the church. There seems to be this opinion here and also in other bodies of church members that what the prophet says is as good as the scriptures. In actuality, it is not.

The Lord has an order to everything and the order is simple. When He speaks and gives a new revelation, it will be presented as such and then the law of common consent comes into play. We literally vote to accept it or reject it. If accepted AND canonized, it becomes binding upon the saints. In the days of Joseph Smith, before the First Presidency, a single man, a prophet, could reveal the word of God to the saints. However, since the formation of the First Presidency, only the First Presidency statements have any real weight. The prophet is bound to his counsellors, or they are bound to him, however you want to view it. He is no longer free to give, alone, the word and will of the Lord. It must be done as a quorum, else, it is just OPINION.

Everything we hear at general conference is just opinion. It may be truth, it may be fiction. (Believe it or not, there are actually fictions circulated.) But it is up to us to act noble, as the writer of Acts states about the Berean saints, and to search the scriptures and seek scriptural and spiritual confirmation from the Holy Ghost before we just flatly accept what we hear from our leaders as truth, whether from GAs or from local leaders, it is the same.

The last time, that I know of, that the GAs gave anything with any weight was the statement on families given by the First Presidency back in '95, I believe. That statement was definitive. Was it revelation? No. Was it presented as revelation? No. Is it scripture? No. Was it presented as scripture? No. Is it canonized? No. Did we ever vote on it to accept it as scripture or to canonize it? In other words, was the law of common consent ever invoked to make that statement binding upon the latter-day saints? Nope. So what do we do with the statement on families? The same thing we do with everything we receive from the church, namely, we compare it with the written word and pray for scriptural and spiritual confirmation, and if there are truths in the document, we seek to incorporate those truths into our lives.

The Mormon Prophet Said So, Is That Enough?

Oh no... not another Nighthawk... please do not form a league Something that is almost comical but not to the point of laughter... I have to ask... who wrote the scriptures? Who approved them for the use as 'scripture'? It is well to believe in what the ancient prophets have written, but it is an even greater thing to believe in a modern day prophet.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but there seems to be this notion that it is possible that the Brethren (those of the Twelve and the First Presidency) will seek to lead us away from truth. Why should there be an 'if' in there? No one is saying any of them are infallible, quite the opposite. I can say from experience ( I will not list here) but I have been around the Prophet and most of the Brethren (My mission and when they visited my country - we drove them around) and have seen their reaction to certain situations, some of which I knew were there own feelings and opinions, but I know how to decipher that from the pulpit.

The Mormon Prophet So That Enough - Page 8

Buggeyes, you and I don't agree on most of what you say in this post. In fact, in some instances, I don't see at all how what you are saying makes your point. However, I would just like to add this or ask you to respond to it:

If you have read the other posts, one of them mentions a quote from Brigham Young where he says if he had to choose what the modern day prophet (referring at that time to Joseph Smith) says over the scriptures, he would go with the prophet. Joseph then stands and tells the congregation that Brigham is correct. Please read the post directly if you haven't already and then I would like to hear what you think about that comment.

The Mormon Prophet So That Enough Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 8

Prophets write the scriptures. Although we have no right to vote to make or create or denounce a revelation, we do have a right, according to the law of common consent, to accept or reject a revelation. Revelation that has been accepted by the people and has been canonized becomes binding upon us.

Okay, you can read that just as well, "if there are errors in the document, we seek to remove them from our lives." Our lives are a sifting process. We sift the truth from the error. Our sifters (the scriptures and the Holy Ghost) should not be set aside just because the material is coming from the church. As for the possibility of the Brethren leading us astray, doesn't the Lord say in D&C 20:32

Hi, Tenaheff, Brigham Young was right to say what he said. If faced with a choice in which we had to choose between the scriptures and the living oracles, he (and me) will choose the living oracles. These are modern times and we need modern revelation. However, we latter-day saints are not faced with such a choice. We are given canonized scriptures by which to measure all things, including the living oracles. The living oracles cannot say anything contrary to the scriptures, if they do they are out of place. They know this and they have taught this. This is why when the new calling of an area authority was called, Pres. Hinckley made it a point to point out the scriptural reference in the Doctrine and Covenants that authorizes such a new calling. The living oracles are bound by the canonized scripture. If there is no scripture, there are no bounds, and the Lord can reveal anew. But because we have canonized scripture, this is our measuring stick and all things, and all people, must be measured by them. If they don't measure up, there will be hell to pay. This is why we will be judged out of the books that are written.

The church is under condemnation, said Pres. Benson. Why? 'Cause we haven't been measuring with the scriptures. The church currently has a follow the brethren mantra, instead of a try the spirits to see whether they are of God mantra. "Follow the brethren" comes from some of the apostles currently living. "Try the spirits" comes from the canonized scriptures. How do you harmonize the two? Easy, you follow the brethren after you have tried the spirits and found that the brethren are preaching the word of God, not before but after you've tried them. This is why the Berean saints were called more noble than those of Thessalonica. They didn't outright believe the missionaries' words. They listened, then compared what they heard to their scriptures and when they received confirmation that the message was true, they readily believed. Thus the Berean saints were fortified against deceit.