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Members in Debt - Page 3

We have 3 credit cards but use them for convenience only. We pay them off in full every month. In fact, all three pay us in one way or another. One builds credit toward a new GM car, eventually we'll be able to walk in to the Dealer and put $5,000 down on a car that was earned by using their card. I think we have earned about $3,000 now. Another card gives cash back, or double credit at participating merchants, and the other card gives us a discount on gas at the pump. So, virtually anything and everything that can be bought with a credit card we will do. Groceries, clothes, services etc. It makes for big bills at the end of the month but the key is to only use them for things you would buy anyway. Don't use them to make a purchase that you don't have the money to pay for.

Debt Members

OK, I feel I must share my story. Debt does not always come from making poor choices. We have a special needs son who has needed a LOT of medical care. When he was 7, he had to be hospitalized for a month. The bill was 32,000 dollars, and our insurance at the time only covered a week of that. His monthly medications are very expensive, and during 2 periods of unemployment and no insurance the bills racked up- his medications alone run around 3,000 a month. That doesn't include the many specialists we have had to go to and all the testing that he has had. We were unemployed for a year 2 years ago, and we lost our house and ruined our credit. The church can only help so much, and our families are not reliable for that sort of thing. We lost our car. I also have extensive medical bills from the past. This may horrify some of you, but I spent over 20,000 in therapy. I desperately needed it- I was so miserable and didn't want to live, living in constant despair. I was determined that no matter how long it took to pay it off, I didn't want my family having to live with me like that or for me to have to feel that way, and I wasn't going to stop until I felt better and could handle everything in my life. I am sad to still be paying that debt off, but it was SOO worth it to me, and my family. The quality of my life with my family has improved so much, my heart has healed, and I am able to progress now that things are behind me. My life has changed partly because of the counseling I received. My husband is in the computer industry and has lost jobs because of companies being bought out or going under, so it wasn't his fault for being unemployed. He is the best job hunter I know and does it full time when he has been out of work. In fact, we have been unemployed for the last three months, again, but just started his first day today at a new job with Cisco. So, trying to look at our decisions objectively and honestly, I don't feel that our debt is our fault for the most part. I would really like to hear your opinions on this. Please be gentle.

Members in Debt Studies Doctrine Mormon

No, $32,000 in medical bills is not your fault. We would all do whatever it takes to protect our children. The problem is the high cost of medical care in the U.S. It's outrageous. So, I agree some debt is not the fault of the debtor.

But I do wonder how your husband could be unemployed for an entire year. There are plenty of jobs available that you can do while you are looking for a better paying job. Convenience store clerk, McDonalds, telemarketer, etc. May not be good paying but why remain unemployed for a year when you can work until you land the job you are looking for?

Page 3 Debt Members

We worked very hard at BYU to put my husband through school for 5 years (he received a bachelor of computer science with minors in math and physics) I was naive before our unemployment because I thought that his degree would be a safeguard against unemployment. There were many times that we wanted to give up and leave school- we had 2 children and no money. But we thought that that diploma was like insurance for us, so we pressed on. My husband lost his job shortly after 9/11. We lived in Seattle, where programming jobs and dot com companies were abundant. Needless to say, so many companies went under and the market was saturated with skilled computer people. He hardly had any bites during that year. I eventually went and got a full time manager position at ChuckECheese. It is very hard to job hunt full time if you are working someplace else. Our family relies on his career to make enough to support us and working for McDonald's would not make much sense. There is nothing wrong with working at McDonald's, both my husband and I have worked there. But not with a family, a special needs son needing a lot of money for medical care, me needing money for medical expenses as well. We also counseled with our bishop, and he felt that he needed to be available to job hunt all day as well. As far as working nights, we were both depressed, not sleeping or eating well, anxious, and scared. We were having a hard enough time being spouses to each other, parents, and maintaining our callings and all else that life requires. Losing any sleep we could get was the last thing either of us needed, and may have made things at home a lot worse. We have seen tv shows advocating "get out there and work, anything you can do" but this just wasn't right for us. Also we sought through prayer and fasting often about what we should do.
I will say that the last three months being unemployed again has been a totally opposite experience. We had so much faith in Heavenly Father from the beginning, and we had learned that emotional suffering from something we couldn't control did not make my husband get a job any faster. In fact, what we went through that year probably did effect his ability to get a job, possibly dimming his interviewing skills with the sleep deprivation and depression. One more thing, Howe, while you could be working a low paying job waiting for a job that pays more, is when you are job hunting you never know when that job is going to come through and it is much harder to find if you are not available to search. Unless you've been in our situation, it is hard to know what you would do. But I did ask for opinions, and I respect your opinions very much. So thanks for the response.

Debt Members

I think the admonition regarding debt is more speaking of discretionary spending. I can't imagine anyone suggesting you should not get whatever medical assistance you need.

Well, I think this is off topic, but I just wanted to add my two cents in support.
I don't think the above statement makes sense. First of all, you probably would collect more from unemployment than you would from working at one of these minimum wage jobs. Second, as Dawnofthenew already indicated, holding down one of these jobs would adversely affect your ability to properly search for a better job. I don't think it is reasonable to expect a skilled professional to take a job at McDonald's no matter how short term you think it would be. It certainly wouldn't have helped keep the house or car. Not enough money.

Members in Debt

I see your point and I know most people probably feel the same way but I see it a little differently. First, regarding unemployment benefits. Yes, if you get a minimum wage job you lose unemployment. But I think the reason unemployment exists is for people who cannot find work, not for those who cannot find good enough work. The Gospel teaches us to work for our living and I think if there is work available, we should take it. I think God is more apt to bless us and answer our pleas if we are doing all we can and working to support ourselves rather than relying on government hand-outs.

As far as not being able to find work when you already have a job, I don't buy it. Most minimum wage jobs don't take up your entire day. Most of these jobs have a lot of evening hours available as well which could leave a lot of your daytime free for job searching and interviews. Every job I've got I found when I was working at another full time job, except for my very first job of cource.

While it is true a min wage job will not pay all the bills, something is better than nothing. I have seen many people who have advanced degrees and training in a high paying career who refuse to work at a low paying job when they are unable to find work in their area of training. I don't think that's right.

About 15 years ago, we made a big move to a different area without any job offers. It took me 3 months to land the job I have now but I worked the entire time. I sold coupons door to door, photography packages from a booth at a supermarket, water softners, etc. After I landed the job, I moonlighted for a little while with some of these other jobs to keep up.

A min wage job pays about $10,000-$12,000 per year. Not enough to pay the bills for a regular family but $10,000-$12,000 more than no job pays.

Members Debt - Page 3

As a matter of fact, the rules of unemployment are you are expected to find a job comparable to the one you had previously. So, that isn't accurate. However, we have gotten way off topic here. The discussion is really just about members being in debt. The debt was caused by medical bills, a job a McDonalds really wouldn't have made a dent in that.

Members Debt Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 3

Right, and I believe someone in debt due to medical bills is really not at fault. While I think bankruptcy is used much too often, this is once scenario where I think it is valid.