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Journal of Discourses - Page 9

[quote] Keep in mind that because a book is recommended for reading on a mission doesn't mean it is an official Church publication, it must have the stamp of the Church on the inside cover or title page[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, but that only goes back to what this thread is all about... if something is not 'official' then why should it be used in official circumstances? A mission is offical business. Teaching from a book that is not 'official' is the same as saying... 'I am a medical doctor, but where I learned was not 'official', but everyone knows the teach good stuff.' You may say, well no one tells missionaries to teach from Jesus the Christ, if so then why would we be asked to read it if not to share our learning and build our testimony. In my experience the Church does not like to put too many 'official stamps' on things because of the consequences that might be experienced after. Who knows? Should the Church say what should be used in its sacrament meetings as referrences? I think it should. We go to Church to learn the word of God, but who is to say that the person giving the talk isn't giving us Talmage's view or Pratt's view when it should be the view of Nephi, Mormon, John the Beloved, Paul, etc.

Discourses Journal

[quote]I just looked at my copy of 'Jesus the Christ' by Talmage and it does not have the name of the Church on it[/quote]

[quote] Keep in mind that because a book is recommended for reading on a mission doesn't mean it is an official Church publication, it must have the stamp of the Church on the inside cover or title page.  If it says "Published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah"  It is an official Church publication[/quote]

JB, Tena, I just check my copy of Jesus the Christ of Elder Talmage and in the first page says the following:

"Jesus The Christ, A study of the Messiah and His Mission according to Holy Scriptures both Ancient and Modern by James E. Talmage one of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. PUBLISHED BY THE CHURCH. Forty-Second Edition including the two hundred eight thousandth. Salt Lake City, Utah. Deseret Book Company 1976."

In the other side of the page appears the Copyrights from Pres. Joseph. F. Smith until Spencer W. Kimball. Also in the preface it says:

"The author of this volume entered upon his welcome service under REQUEST and APPOINTMENT from the PRESIDING authorities of the Church; and the completed work has been READ TO and is APPROVED by the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve. It presents, however, the writer's personal belief and profoundest conviction as to the truth of what he has written. The book is published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints"

So it's obvious to me that Jesus the Christ is an official publication of the Church. So that's why JB I think they give you the book to read in the mission but as I believe this, I also believe that the Journal of Discourses is an official publication of the Church because it contains the copyrights of several Prophets and our leaders quote from them in our Church books and talks...I know this is my opinion only so don't throw me tomatoes :

Journal of Discourses Studies Doctrine Mormon

:spock: Oppsss... now we know why it was recommended reading on my mission. I guess I was paying too much attention to the outside and inside covers of the book and did not thumb through. thanks for finding that LDS.
[offtopic]I was just thinking, maybe someone like to start a thread about books that take us into the deeper truths and are official. Anyone want to start it?[/offtopic]

Page 9 Discourses Journal

No problem JB, I will start a thread about official publications of the Church. Great idea!!!!

Discourses Journal

[quote]It's only between you and the Lord but I feel strongly that the Church should take a position and clarify all those issues.
. . .
Don't take me wrong people, I love this Church and that's why I'm here but I think the Church has the obligation to let the new converts know about what the Church believed and believe today. [/quote]

Sorry to go back to this, but while reading on the a.r.m.f. newsgroup today, I found this excellent quote on the same subject.

[quote]>Why is Deseret Book Store still selling "Mormon Doctrine"?? Aren't the
>owners supposed to be faithful members of the church?

The church happily tolerates factions as long as they don't get weird.  Variation in belief among Mormons is not only not an issue, it's a necessity. If the church tried to conform belief, she'd suffer genuine church splits.[/quote]

This is basically what I was trying to say earlier.  Anytime the "Church" has taken a specific stand on any principle of doctrine, whether it is plural marriage, the official declaration in 1978, or any other point, people leave the church, start their own church, or just become antagonistic.

NightHawk

Journal of Discourses

[quote] This is basically what I was trying to say earlier.  Anytime the "Church" has taken a specific stand on any principle of doctrine, whether it is plural marriage, the official declaration in 1978, or any other point, people leave the church, start their own church, or just become antagonistic. [/quote]

I know, that's my whole point!. It's like we are afraid to let the new members know on the things we believe because they may leave the Church and tell us we are all nuts or they will start their own Church. It doesn't make sense to me. These are our beliefs, this is what we 'are'...there is nothing to be afraid or embarrass about  In my opinion of course.

Does anyone have the whole collection of the Journal of Discourses? I heard that there are variations between the books and the CD'S. I'm interested in this. If there are variations of 'doctrine' rather than spelling or mistakes...do you all think its right?. Before to assume I would like to know who has both, the books and the CD's. Thanks.

Journal Discourses - Page 9

[quote]Should the Church say what should be used in its sacrament meetings as referrences?[/quote]

Maybe

It depends on a few things for which I don't have an answer.  I know that teachers are supposed to only teach from Church published materials so that the lessons taught are comprised of official doctrine.  However, Sacrament Meetings might be different.  I have never been told anything other than what my topic was to be.  What does the Bishop's handbook say about this topic?  If someone knows that, it would go a long way towards an explanation.

For example, while it may be confusing to a new convert, we all understand that the speaker is a lay member of the congregation who has been asked to research and present information on a particular topic.  That talk by it's very nature is based in opinion not absolute Church doctrine.  Part of the reason we do this (I think) is so that we can get the perspective of many different people.  Often there is one topic, but several speakers on a Sunday.  We, therefore, get different perspectives on the same subject matter.

If someone were to say something absolutely contrary to Church doctrine it would be the responsibility of the presiding Priesthood holder (Bishop, counselor, etc.) to stand up and publicly correct the error.  Other than that, though, Sacrament talks are just talks, not lessons.  At least that is the impression under which I have been operating.  Classroom lessons are different.  They are lessons, which is why it is so important to only quote from Church publications in them.

I think, if the purpose of the Sacrament Meeting talks was to be more rigidly in line with Church doctrine then we would be better served by having speakers called like we do teachers so that the subject and material could be controlled.  

The impression I have always had is that Sacrament Meeting talks are more designed to get us to consider more thoroughly a particular topic from more than one point of view to work at applying a principal to our lives.  This is a subtle difference from the purpose of the classroom less, but a difference none the less.

I do agree that this can be a source of confusion for visitors or those who are "young in the faith," however.

Journal Discourses Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 9

[quote]Does anyone have the whole collection of the Journal of Discourses? I heard that there are variations between the books and the CD'S. I'm interested in this. If there are variations of 'doctrine' rather than spelling or mistakes...do you all think its right?. Before to assume I would like to know who has both, the books and the CD's. Thanks.[/quote]

I do.  I thought it was lost and gone forever, but I found it today, packed away in the basement.

I would need to know specific places to start looking to find differences.

NightHawk