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Journal of Discourses - Page 12

If I may I would like to try to make heads or tails out of what has been posted here so far. I will conclude on topic as originally stated.

As I see it there are three different but related issues being discussed here. One, the definition of "official". Two, what is policy. Three what is doctrine.

First I believe that there is contention here in a subject where there doesn't really need to be.

Policy, I agree with Edward that policy is only binding upon those officers unto whom the policy pertains and not the congregation as a whole.

Doctrine, I agree that doctrine in it's many forms is binding upon all those that have elected by covenant to live according to that doctrine. This is what happens when we raise our hands to sustain it. It is upon that doctrine that we as a congregation of saints will individually be judged.

Official, What makes it official. I believe that all who have posted here are principally correct. There are two things that make anything "official". It must either be presented to the body of the saints for a sustaining vote, as in new revelation that comes from Jesus Christ, through the Holy Ghost, to the Prophet. After which it is ratified by the Quorum of the Twelve and then sustained by the Saints in General. It is that act that makes us liable under judgement for living according to that doctrine. From this we have the standard works of scripture and all they contain. This usually only applies to newly revealed doctrine, changes to existing doctrine, or expansion upon existing doctrine.

The second method is by official doctrine being put forth to the body of saints by those whom we have already sustained as prophets, seers and revelators. This would include all manuels issued specifically for the teaching of the saints and does not contain any new doctrine but only remanifests that which has already been adopted as official doctrine.

There is a process of ratification in either case of doctrine. With both issues of doctrine whether new scripture or new manuals the ratification rests on the shoulders of the Quorum of the Twelve. There job is to ensure that nothing contained therein is in contradiction to existing doctrine or in other words false doctrine. Those particular committees and boards created by the Quorum operate according to those same specific keys of priesthood authority delegated to them by the Quorum of the Twelve.

This brings us back to the original topic. The Journal of Discourses. I am not aware that the Quorum of the Twelve has ever endorsed the creations of any man, regardless of his position in the church as official doctrine. To do so would mean that they would have to ensure that there is nothing written therein that is not already specifically stated in scripture or has been issued forth by the Lord through the Prophet as new revelation. That would mean that many of the ascertions no matter how genuine and even correct would have to be deleted from the book which of course would no longer make it the book intended.

That does not mean however that there are not many things contained in those books which are true and edifying and they as such are endorsed as such by the leaders of the church.

This is why books such as the Journal of Discourses and Jesus the Christ and Mormon Doctrine are not ratified as official doctrine. Even though they contain many true and correct principles, to remove those items contained in them which are not official doctrine would cause those particular books to no longer exist as they were written by their authors.

Respectfully,
RC3

Discourses Journal

Jesus the Christ is indeed 'official' doctrine since it was published by the Church. If you check your copy you will see that in the front page.

Journal of Discourses Studies Doctrine Mormon

I understand your position. There is a marked difference however. All of our manuels presented as "official doctrine" for the teaching in our various classes and quorums are published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah.

Student Manuels presented by the Church for classes outside of the "Sunday" curriculum are published by the, Church Educational System, Department of Seminaries and Institutes of Religion, Salt Lake City, Utah. Copyright, Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Those books are considered official doctrine as presented to the Church body under the authority of the Keys of the Priesthood.

Then you have books such as History of the Church by Joseph Smith and B.H. Roberts. That says, Published for the Church, The Deseret Book Company Salt Lake City, Utah copyright, George Albert Smith for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

And finally Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage, One of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Published by Deseret Book Company Salt Lake City, Utah, copyright Joseph F. Smith, followed by Harold B. Lee as Trustee in Trust for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In the preface for Jesus The Christ we find this, "The author of this volume entered upon his welcome service under request and appointment from the presiding authorities of the Church; and the completed work has been read to and is approved by the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve". "It Presents, however, the writer's personal belief and profoundest conviction as to the truth of what he has written". "The book is published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".

I believe the real answer to the question at hand as to what is "official doctrine" as published by the Church and what are "good works" as published by the church lies in the Keys of the Priesthood.

If it is published by the Church itself and is organized and authorized under the Keys of the Priesthood. Then it is "official doctrine".

If it is published by the Church, through one of it's business holdings, even if it has been reviewed and approved by men holding priesthood keys (which is different than being organized and authorized through those keys) then it stands as "good works".

Good works will absolutely help us to attain our goals of exaltation, which is why it is published by the church.

Official Doctrine is the standard by which we will be held accountable at the Judgement bar.

Just my opinion, peace and love,
RC3

Page 12 Discourses Journal

Also it is interesting to note that several books copyrights are owned by the Church and held by the corporation of the President of the Church. That is purely because the copyrights of those books have been donated by the original authors to the Church and are currently held as business interests of the Church.

RC3

Discourses Journal

Well, we will have to disagree in this one . I believe that if a book is published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, it also means that the First Presidency approves it (of course, the Prophet including) if it was only a 'good book' then it will have the name of the author as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve or General Authority (like so many books published individually by these brethren) and it will not have the endorse of the Church on it. The fact that the Church's name appear on it, it is my understanding that what is written there is 'doctriine' of the LDS Church.

Journal of Discourses

It is my understanding if it is says published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is official. In fact, it can be used and quoted in lessons, etc. I have never heard of the distinctions you are making.

I will need to look in my manuals to see what they say. I have been under the impression that Jesus the Christ says Published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Are you saying that is not what it says?

Journal Discourses - Page 12

RCollester3 although I enjoy most of your posts, on this one I think you may have not read though all the messages in this thread and thus your opinion/analysis only raises more questions or digresses on what we already covered. in fact if one were to follow your interpretation on how to decipher what to take as doctrinal or not it may lead to more confusion. Now this is not a personal attack on you or what you said, i am just saying we covered all that already... a work cannot be partly quoted from and substantiated as truth and then the other part as just opinion.

Journal Discourses Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 12

Tenaheff,
It is my understanding if it is says published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is official. In fact, it can be used and quoted in lessons, etc. I have never heard of the distinctions you are making.

That is exactly what I said.



LDS Forever,
if it was only a 'good book' then it will have the name of the author as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve or General Authority (like so many books published individually by these brethren) and it will not have the endorse of the Church on it.

That is how I understand it too and that is exactly the way it is with Jesus the Christ.

Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage, One of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Published by Deseret Book Company Salt Lake City, Utah, copyright Joseph F. Smith, followed by Harold B. Lee as Trustee in Trust for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints


RC3