Related Information to Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 29

Thanks for the links and quotes LDS_forever and Nighthawk, however I would like for this board to remain free of ALL anti-mormon lyrics. Thus whatever can be found from legit sources should be emphasized and the others left for those who want to search on their own. Now we need to look at why Joseph F. Smith will marry another after the manifesto? Is it that he thought he was fully in his right being in international waters? However, what would happen once they returned to the US? Or was it that this new wife was to remain alone?

Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

He was not in international waters that I know of but now reading the post of Nighhawlk he mentions he was. He was charged with "unlawful cohabitation", plead guilty, and convicted of that offense. He was fined with US$300, which he paid. (Deseret Evening News, November 23, 1906). If you all pay attention his arrest took place in 1906, and he issued the second Manifesto in 1904 saying that whoever is involved in new marriages would be excommunicated. How do we explain this?. Heber J. Grant, who was an apostle at that time, was also convicted of "unlawful cohabitation". (Daily Tribune, September 9, 1899). In 1903 he fled to England to avoid being again charged with "unlawful cohabitation".

"Rather than resolving the polygamy question, however, according to one historian: "For both the hierarchy and the general membership of the LDS Church, the Manifesto inaugurated an ambiguous era in the practice of plural marriage rivaled only by the status of polygamy during the lifetime of Joseph Smith." Woodruff's public and private statements contradicted whether the Manifesto applied to existing marriages. As a result of the Manifesto, some men left plural wives; others interpreted it as applying only to new marriages. All polygamous general authorities (church leaders including the First Presidency, Council of the Twelve Apostles, church patriarch, First Council of Seventy, and Presiding Bishopric) continued to cohabit with their wives. Based on impressionistic evidence in family histories and genealogical records, it appears that "most" polygamists followed the general authorities' example."

During the Senate investigation in 1904 concerning the seating of Senator-elect Reed Smoot, a monogamist but a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Mormon Church President Joseph F. Smith presented what historians have called the "Second Manifesto" on 7 April 1904. It included provisions for the church to take action against those who continued to perform plural marriages and marry plural wives. Matthias Cowley and John W. Taylor, both apostles, continued to be involved in performing or advocating new plural marriages after 1904, and, as a result, Cowley was disfellowshipped and Taylor excommunicated from the church. In 1909 a committee of apostles met to investigate post-Manifesto polygamy, and by 1910 the church had a new policy. Those involved in plural marriages after 1904 were excommunicated; and those married between 1890 and 1904 were not to have church callings where other members would have to sustain them. Although the Mormon Church officially prohibited new plural marriages after 1904, many plural husbands and wives continued to cohabit until their deaths in the 1940s and 1950s."

https://historytogo.utah.gov/historyofpolygamy.html

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... Studies Doctrine Mormon

Journal of Discourses, Vol.4, p.39, Brigham Young, August 31, 1856


"True we have more wives than one, and what of that? They have their scores of thousands of prostitutes, we have none. But polygamy they are unconstitutionally striving to prevent: when they will accomplish their object is not for me to say. They have already presented a resolution in Congress that no man, in any of the Territories of the United States, shall be allowed to have more than one wife, under a penalty not exceeding five years imprisonment, and five hundred dollars fine. How will they get rid of this awful evil in Utah? They will have to expend about three hundred millions of dollars for building a prison, for we must all go into prison. And after they have expended that amount for a prison, and roofed if over from the summit of the Rocky Mountains to the summit of the Sierra Nevada, we will dig out and go preaching through the world. (Voice on the stand: what will become of the women, will they go to prison with us?) Brother Heber seems concerned about the women's going with us; they will be with us, for we shall be here together. This is a little amusing."

Page 29 Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

Sorry about the link to an anti-Mormon source. Sometimes those sites have solid historical information.

Now, why did Joseph F. Smith enter into further plural marriages? Perhaps these will help:

I don't have the exact page number for the above quote, as I lifted it out of another document, which contained a lot of the original discourse.

Joseph F. Smith believed, and taught, that Plural Marriage is Celestial Law. Apparently he sanctioned new plural marriages, even after the Mini-Manifesto of 1904!

I hope this helps to explain some of why he did what he did.

NightHawk

Offtopic but, I can provide reference to some fundamentalist sites for more detailed information on this subject, but am not sure whether that would fall under your definition of an "anti" site.

Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

But that seems like a double standard, especially to those who would have been involved in it. There must be more reasoning to this.

Offtopic but, Nighthawk, let's leave the fundamentalist out of this before everyone thinks we are trying to establish a sect. Only reputable sources. Thanks.

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...

You are right. It is a double standard. That is why the fundamentalists (the majority of who do NOT have plural marriages) exist. They hold that even Joseph F. Smith and Heber J. Grant (both of whom lived in plural marriage after 1890) obviously thought, and taught, that the Manifesto was a purely political, not a revelatory, move.

There are more quotes and resources on this subject, but they come almost entirely from fundamentalist and anti-Mormon sources, as no "respectable" Mormon researcher will touch the subject after Michael Quinn's experiences.

NightHawk

Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... - Page 29

This is the point where I would love to be in the US or some place where the Church is more developed so I could discuss it with some Institute teachers and/or principals. I have met some that are unafraid to dive into these kinds of topics.

Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 29

Yes, it is a double standard to me and the reason I said this is that if he issued the second Manifesto in 1904 saying any person involved in Plural Marriage could be excommunicated and he was living with his other wives sounds like one thing was told to the brethren in public and other thing was being 'practised' in the private life. (Specially the Firsy Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve). Three things could explain this:

1) Like Nighhawlk said they really thought the Manifesto was a purely politic move and then just wanted them to leave them alone and make them believe they stopped Plural Marriage when in fact they never did.

2) They were to afraid to leave their families and they had a double standard, one in public and one in private.

3) They didn't understand the first Manifesto in the first place, it is obvious some they just interpret it as a matter of the law of the land and that's why Joseph F Smith authorized some new marriages outside the US after 1904.

I think each brethren at that time had their own interpretation of the First Manifesto, others seems like they were willing to go to jail (just like Brigham Young said in the quote I posted earlier) and some others seems like they were willing to be excommunicated for it!. Also I read somewhere that Joseph F Smith performed some new marriages without the knowledge of President Snow and when he died, President Smith more than ever protected the new Plural Marriages and continue the practise.
Also it seems they were willing to reject the word of the Prophet in this issue about the discontinue of the practise (First Manifesto)....but I think if the Prophet himself (Joseph F Smith) was actually continuing the practise, maybe the bretheren tried to follow his example. In any case, it shows what a great impact Plural Marriage had in the lives of the early Saints.

Edited: LDS_forever on 24th Feb, 2004 - 11:51am