Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 40 of 79

QUOTE "Cease teaching" is a whole - Page 40 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 11th Nov, 2004 - 7:22pm

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Mormon doctrine on polygamy Mormon Doctrine on Plural Marriage - This Thread goes deep into all the angles of Mormon Polygamy, the requirement of Celestial Marriage which once encompassed Plural Marriage and the current standing of it with the modern Church. Also deeply analyzed is Joseph Smith's secret practise of it that latter lead to his death. Controversial Mormon Issue.
Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... Related Information to Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...
6th Oct, 2004 - 2:10pm / Post ID: #

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 40

QUOTE
How can we hope to be part of the Millenial Kingdom, if we resist the laws He has already given us? We have successfully persecuted those who believe in this Celestial principle for almost 100 years. I think it is almost exactly 100 years since the last officially recognized plural marriage was solemnized. Since that time, we have persecuted Apostles out of their offices, driven members of the Church underground, out of our society, out of their families' lives, for practicing their religion to the best of their ability.


I think what they have been "persecuted" for is refusing to obey the Lord's commandment. He has commanded that we not practice this at this time here on earth. Also, much of what I have read is of old men marrying young girls and severe beatings, etc. To me, they should be persecuted, in fact, prosecuted. Now, I do think that people should have the right to marry more than one person if they want, but not the way many do it by marrying young teenagers and beating any girl who tries to refuse. However, no Latter-day saint has this right because the Lord is the one to decide when and if it should be done and today he still says no.

Nighthawk, I am sure this is not a shock to you, smile.gif but I totally disagree with you. I do not think it is a requirement that I live this law, but a requirement that I be willing to live it if the Lord asks me. I hope he never asks, but I can assure you the only way I will ever live it is if I believe He is the one asking me. I have no doubt that if he wants me to live this Principal he will let me know personally. Then, I will do what I am told, but I won't like it and it will be extremely difficult to do.

By asserting that you believe it is an absolute requirement that we live it, this makes it sound like you believe that our Church leaders have deceived us and that the Lord never told us to stop practicing it. And I know you have said you think he allowed us to make that choice not necessarily commanded us. To me it is the same thing. I would not allow my child to make a choice that I knew was going to harm him eternally without telling him the consequences of such a choice. That is not at all mentioned in the revelation. Would not a loving father say something like..."well, if you really don't want to do this, I won't force you, but you need to understand that if you are unwilling to live this law, you can't return to live with me one day...?



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6th Oct, 2004 - 5:50pm / Post ID: #

Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

QUOTE
but what time line are you giving for these events? Is this return of Joseph going to be before the Savior comes?


I don't know that I have a good timeline in mind. Yes, Joseph, or whoever the one "mighty and strong" is will set the House of the Lord in order before the Saviour returns. Other than that, I don't really know.

QUOTE
I think what they have been "persecuted" for is refusing to obey the Lord's commandment. He has commanded that we not practice this at this time here on earth.


Where did He command it? The Manifesto certainly does not contain a commandment, and, as I have shown, Joseph F. Smith had a plural marriage solemnized several years AFTER the Manifesto. After over 40 years of teaching this principle as an absolute requirement for Celestial glory, after receiving the written revelation of D&C 132, there not only is no written revelation rescinding this principle, but there isn't even a rumour of a verbal revelation on the subject. Wilford Woodruff explained that the Lord showed him what the Saints would have to go through if they continued to practice the principle. I have, at no time, seen any indication that the Lord told Wilford Woodruff, or any other Prophet, explicitly to stop the practice.

However, the persecution that I was talking about was the hypocritical attitudes taken by the membership at large. I have written about it before in this topic. I saw it in my own family, where my grandmother didn't really even want to have much to do with her own daughter and grandchildren who were involved in plural marriage.

QUOTE
Also, much of what I have read is of old men marrying young girls and severe beatings, etc. To me, they should be persecuted, in fact, prosecuted.

You are right. Such acts SHOULD be prosecuted. However, the actual incident of abuse in relationships is no higher among polygamists than among monogamists. So, using abuse as an excuse to persecute the religious beliefs of others is not a valid argument. I'll be the first to agree that among the men involved in polygamy, with whom I am personally familiar, there is a strong sense of arrogance. However, I have seen just as much of the same arrogance among monogamist men in Utah, who, based on their Priesthood, think that they "rule the roost."

I know that you disagree with me. I am not trying to convince anyone. If anything at all, I want people to be aware that this may be a major turning point within the Church. Just as it was the doctrine that separated the sheep from the goats in the late 1800s, so (I think) it will be the doctrine that will identify the tares among the wheat in these last days.

If, as many believe, there is going to be a major schism within the Church, with only a relatively few following the Lord's annointed, this would be a great doctrine to define the split. According to Bishop Koyle's prophecies, the "white cities", which are the physical and spiritual refuges during the tribulations, will be founded on the two Celestial Laws - plural marriage and consecration.

These are certainly my opinions. Pray and make your own decisions about this doctrine. But remember that the Prophet and Apostles very clearly taught that plural marriage is a necessity, not an option to enter the Celestial Kingdom.



7th Oct, 2004 - 12:06pm / Post ID: #

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... Studies Doctrine Mormon

QUOTE
Where did He command it?


Through the voice of his prophets. I don't believe it needs to be contained in the Doctrine & Covenants to be a command from the Lord. We have modern day prophets on the earth in this dispensation. They speak for the Lord. Modern day prophets have certainly commanded us that we are not to enter this practice. Since the Lord certainly isn't going to allow them to lead us astray so gravely that our ability to return to live with Him would be jeapordized and do it in his name for as many years as they have. So, to me, the fact that they have consistently told us no, and he hasn't done anything to put a prophet in place that says otherwise, I believe he has commanded that we not live this law.

If I choose to live polygamy because I think the prophets have made a mistake and the Lord didn't really tell them to stop the practice, what is to stop me from doing the same about tithing or the Word of Wisdom or the Law of Chastity?



25th Oct, 2004 - 12:27am / Post ID: #

Page 40 Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

I was interested to see what the Church had in its online DB about plural marriage. Especially an excommunicated Apostle being made an Apostle again! This is what I found:



The following information is provided to help you if class members have questions about the practice of plural marriage. It should not be the focus of the lesson.

The Lord's purpose for commanding His people to practice plural marriage

In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Jacob taught: "For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife. "¦ [But] if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things" (Jacob 2:27, Jacob 2:30). At various times throughout biblical history, the Lord commanded people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (D&C 132:1).

The revelation to practice plural marriage in this dispensation

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood.

The Church's position on plural marriage today

In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1, pages 291-92 in the Doctrine and Covenants; see also the excerpts from addresses by President Woodruff that immediately follow Official Declaration 1).

In 1998, President Gordon B. Hinckley made the following statement about the Church's position on plural marriage: "This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. "¦ If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church" (in Conference Report, Oct. 1998, 92; or Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).
Ref. Link to Lesson


During this period the Church was undergoing severe persecution. Anti-Mormons living in Utah and elsewhere, along with the local and national press and many ministers of other religions, conducted a campaign of slander and hatred against the Church, centering around the doctrine of plural marriage. As a result, the Federal government of the United States passed harsh laws that denied the right to vote, hold public office, or serve on juries, to those who lived in plural marriage. Also, those who entered into plural marriage could be sentenced to a fine of $500 and to five years in prison.

These laws were designed to discriminate solely against Latter-day Saints. Federal officials sent into Utah, along with anti-Mormons already living in the state, vigorously worked to identify and prosecute Church members who were living the law of plural marriage. Wives and children were forced to testify in court against their own husbands and fathers. As a result, men who were law abiding were forced to go into hiding. Among these were many Church leaders, including President Taylor, and his first counselor, President George Q. Cannon.
Ref. Link to Message


In Nauvoo, plural marriage was another challenge to the family. Parley had been taught it as early as 1839. He took his first plural wife in 1843, and by 1856 had also married nine others. 13 The doctrine was especially difficult for Orson. While he was in England, his wife Sarah had become interested in John C. Bennett, who had self-servingly joined the Church and risen rapidly to prominence in Nauvoo's city government. When Orson learned of their involvement, they used the teaching of plural marriage as a method of self-defense, accusing the Prophet of improper behavior to cover up their own guilty relationship. Orson believed Sarah and refused to sustain the Prophet in a meeting on 22 July 1842. Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, and George A. Smith spent several hours with Orson, trying to change his mind; but he refused to budge. He and Sarah were excommunicated on 20 August 1842 and Amasa Lyman was ordained to replace him in the Quorum of the Twelve. (See Journals, pp. 176-82.)

As with Parley, though, Orson's basic testimony was unchanged, and soon his eyes were opened to John C. Bennett. Fully repentant, he and Sarah were rebaptized and Orson was reordained an apostle. (See Journals, pp. 187-88, 493, 517.) Later Orson would marry an additional nine wives. 14
Ref. Link to Full Message



25th Oct, 2004 - 1:36am / Post ID: #

Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

Interesting information JB. Thanks for sharing it. I suppose the wife of Orson Pratt was really confused and used the excuse of Plural Marriage to cover up her sin of adultery, I'm actually surprised the husband who was an Apostle would actually believe it.

I also found this picture of early LDS polygamists in jail. Take a look and see if you can recognize Elder Geoge Q. Cannon there.

https://www.timesandseasons.org/archives/000386.html

Reconcile Edited: LDS_forever on 25th Oct, 2004 - 1:41am



25th Oct, 2004 - 3:57am / Post ID: #

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...

The wording of this is very interesting:

QUOTE
In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage.


"Cease teaching" is a whole different issue that "cease practicing," which may be why there are reports of some of the brethren engaging in subsequent marriages afterward.

In my opinion, of course.
Roz



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25th Oct, 2004 - 9:34am / Post ID: #

Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... - Page 40

Farseer I am glad you picked that up, I also noticed that and was wondering where they got that cease 'teaching' from? I believe the Church today sees Plural marriage like history rather than doctrine.



11th Nov, 2004 - 7:22pm / Post ID: #

Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 40

QUOTE
"Cease teaching" is a whole different issue that "cease practicing,"


While this is true, if you cease teaching, at some point you will have to cease practicing. By ceasing the teaching and not the practicing initially, you are allowing the already formed polygamous unions to remain intact without stigma while discontinuing the future practice...or at least that is how it looks to me.




 
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