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Related Information to Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 49 of 79
Elder Oaks and another General Authority had - Page 49 - Mormon Doctrine Studies - Posted: 23rd Aug, 2006 - 1:28am
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Mormon Doctrine on Plural Marriage - This Thread goes deep into all the angles of Mormon Polygamy, the requirement of Celestial Marriage which once encompassed Plural Marriage and the current standing of it with the modern Church. Also deeply analyzed is Joseph Smith's secret practise of it that latter lead to his death. Controversial Mormon Issue. Related Information to Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...
Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 49
I ran across a very interesting article about how the Church has changed from the persecuted to the persecutor. As far as I can tell, this website is a neutral party, and deals with all sorts of religious freedom issues.
https://www.religious-freedoms.org/pers_utah_1.htm
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Post Date: 1st Dec, 2005 - 2:50pm / Post ID: #
Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural
Polygamy, Prophets, and Prevarication: Frequently and Rarely Asked Questions about the Initiation, Practice, and Cessation of Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by Gregory L. Smith
In his extensive article about polygamy, Smith identifies and discusses six areas where The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is attacked by its critics over the issue of polygamy. The issues identified by Smith are:
1) Irreligious - polygamy is inconsistent with Christianity
2) Illegal - the Church and the Saints acted contrary to law
3) Lying - the Church and its leaders lied about the practice
4) Lascivious - polygamy stemmed from base motives of LDS leaders
5) Implementation - polygamy as practiced was harmful
6) Hiding history - the Church has tried to hide or rewrite history
Smith goes into great detail in each of these areas. The length of the paper is 65 pages, which includes a table of contents, three pages of additional reading resources, and 362 endnotes. Smith's faithful, deep, and honest look into this complex subject led him to say, "I have come to see polygamy as a vital, even indispensable, part of the Restoration, practiced at the behest of the Lord and ultimately discontinued through proper priesthood authorization."
Read the article: https://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc39.html
Read the article (PDF): https://www.fairlds.org/apol/misc/misc39.pdf
Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... Studies Doctrine Mormon
I was reading the new manual of President Wilford Woodruff and once again the book tries to portrait him as monogamous as they have done with all the previous manuals and presidents. They only list Phoebe Woodruff as his wife. I started searching about the topic of divorce within LDS plural Marriage at that time since Wilford Woodruff was divorced. I found out that there were several Church Presidents and Apostles who divorced some of their plural wives. Brigham Young divorced ten of them and one of them even sue him but could not get a hold on him since the marriage was not really legal, therefore the divorce was not legal either. John Taylor also was divorced from three plural wives. Joseph F. Smith's first wife also divorced him on the grounds of "adulterous intercourse" with his "concubines."
There were over 2000 divorces granted prior to the 1890 Manifesto. Brigham Young himself granted 1,645. Of the 72 general authorities who were polygamists, 39 had broken marriages, including 54 divorces, 26 separations and 1 annulment. (Utah Historical Quarterly, Winter 1978, p4).
Obviously, not everything was going very good. These marriages seem to be quiet problematic looking at the figures. What do you think?
Page 49 Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural
I get lots of news articles about plural marriage. Here is a particularly interesting one.
https://deseretnews.com/dn/print/1,1442,635188693,00.html
This is about an attempt to get Utah to scrap the way its bigamy laws are used to attack polygamy.
| QUOTE |
| Obviously, not everything was going very good. These marriages seem to be quiet problematic looking at the figures. What do you think? |
Since so many people hated plural marriage (about 90% of the members of the church), I am surprised that so few marriages were destroyed. The men who hated it just plain didn't enter into it. Many women (such as Emma Smith), would get convinced of it, then later harden their hearts towards it.
Jealousy and envy abound everywhere, and everywhen!
(Yes, I know that 'everywhen' isn't properly a word - but it works)
Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural
I found some interesting excerpts from "Mormon Polygamy: A History", by LDS Author Richard S. Van Wagoner. He quotes statements by LDS women and their real feelings about Plural Marriage. I will post a few but please feel free to check the link provided. Please read all the statements and share your thoughts.
First of all, it seems that the first wife needed to give the consent to the husband in order for him to take additional wives. If she did not consent, he was not bound by the law. As we know, she was commanded to consent or be destroyed but her permission was necessary for the man to live the law although he could have married other wives with the Prophet's permission if she did not have good grounds for its refusal.
| QUOTE |
| When cross-examined during the Reed Smoot hearings, church president Joseph F. Smith gave the official church position on the necessity of a wife's consent to polygamy: Prophet Joseph F Smith: The condition is that if she does not consent the Lord will destroy her, but I do not know how he will do it. Question: Is it not true that ... if she refuses her consent her husband is exempt from the law which requires her consent. President Smith: Yes; he is exempt from the law which requires her consent. She is commanded to consent, but if she does not, then he is exempt from the requirement. Question: Then he is at liberty to proceed without her consent, under the law. In other words, her consent amounts to nothing? President Smith: It amounts to nothing but her consent. |
| QUOTE |
| Women and Polygamy Phebe Woodruff "If I am proud of anything in this world, it is that I accepted the principle of plural marriage, and remained among the people called 'Mormons' and am numbered with them to-day." A few days later in a conversation with a long-time friend she was asked, "How is it Sister Woodruff that you have changed your views so suddenly about polygamy? I thought you hated and loathed the institution." "I have not changed," was her response: "I loathe the unclean thing with all the strength of my nature, but Sister, I have suffered all that a woman can endure. I am old and helpless, and would rather stand up anywhere, and say anything commanded of me, than to be turned out of my home in my old age which I should be most assuredly if I refused to obey counsel." Zina D. Jacobs Smith Young "When a woman whose husband had taken a second wife went to Zina in great anguish of mind to ask, "Does the fault lie in myself that I am so miserable; or is the system to blame for it?" Zina reportedly replied, "Sister, you are not to blame, neither are you the only woman who is suffering torments on account of polygamy. There are women in this very house [Brigham Young's] whose hearts are full of hell, and in that room � is a woman who has been a perfect fury ever since Brother Young married Sister Amelia Folsom. Brigham Young dare not enter that room or she would tear his eyes out. It is the system that is to blame for it, but we must try and be as patient as we can." "A successful polygamous wife must regard her husband with indifference, and with no other feeling than that of reverence, for love we regard as a false sentiment; a feeling which should have no existence in polygamy." Sarah Pratt "Here was my husband," she said, "gray headed, taking to his bed young girls in mockery of marriage. Of course there could be no joy for him in such an intercourse except the indulgence of his fanaticism and of something else, perhaps, which I hesitate to mention." Sarah castigated polygamy as the "direst curse with which a people or a nation could be afflicted. It completely demoralizes good men, and makes bad men correspondingly worse. As for the women�well, God help them! First wives it renders desperate, or else heart-broken, mean-spirited creatures; and it almost unsexes some of the other women, but not all of them, for plural wives have their sorrows too." |
Edited: LDS_forever on Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...
By the time I had finished scanning the page you linked, I realized what the site was about. Then I followed the link to the main menu. It is an anti-Mormon page, claiming that the Mormon God is waging a war against human sexuality.
Interesting source.
I certainly realize that many women could not, and can not now, accept plural marriage. I find it very interesting that the site claims, and cherry picked sources to support, the idea that romantic love could not exist inside of a plural marriage.
I have read autobiographies, diary entries, etc, where women inside plural marriages found great love - both from their husbands and from their sister-wives. My direct experience with women involved in plural marriages also show the same types of attitudes.
Yes, there are those who dislike (detest) plural marriage, find it painful or horrible. But then the same thing can be found in monogamous marriages. There is a group of feminists in Utah that claim that ALL Temple Marriages are horrendous, abusive, and horrible.
Remember that this is a Celestial Law. Only Telestial laws are easy to keep.
Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... - Page 49
In revisiting this Topic I feel that there will never be a return to Plural Marriage unless:
1. There is some great revelation to do so, maybe even as dramatic as an Angel coming with drawn sword as was in the time of Joseph
or
2. There is some kind of great growth for the Community of Christ (or other group) to the point that a lot of LDS Members start either converting to it or dividing.
or
3. The Millennium is the time this will be introduced as earth laws will no longer have say over heavenly laws.
I feel #3 is the most likely.
Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 49
Elder Oaks and another General Authority had an interview with Public Affairs of the Church with regards to homosexuality. There is a link on the thread called "Gay Mormon?" within this board. I am also putting the link within this message. It is a VERY detailed interview and I recommend to read the whole thing.
Elder Oaks talked a little bit about Polygamy, this is what he said:
| QUOTE |
| PUBLIC AFFAIRS: The emphasis that has been placed in this conversation on traditional marriage between a man and a woman has been consistent throughout. Do you see any irony in the fact that the Church is so publicly outspoken on this issue, when in the minds of so many people in the United States and around the world the Church is known for once supporting a very untraditional marriage arrangement - that is, polygamy? ELDER OAKS: I see irony in that if one views it without the belief that we affirm in divine revelation. The 19th century Mormons, including some of my ancestors, were not eager to practice plural marriage. They followed the example of Brigham Young, who expressed his profound negative feelings when he first had this principle revealed to him. The Mormons of the 19th century who practiced plural marriage, male and female, did so because they felt it was a duty put upon them by God. When that duty was lifted, they were directed to conform to the law of the land, which forbad polygamy and which had been held constitutional. When they were told to refrain from plural marriage, there were probably some who were unhappy, but I think the majority were greatly relieved and glad to get back into the mainstream of western civilization, which had been marriage between a man and a woman. In short, if you start with the assumption of continuing revelation, on which this Church is founded, then you can understand that there is no irony in this. But if you don't start with that assumption, you see a profound irony. |
TOPIC: Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...