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Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... - Page 64

It is such the concern of the Church about people thinking we are somehow associated with the FLDS Church AND Polygamy particularly that they created an official site about "Mormons and Polygamy".

https://www.mormonsandpolygamy.org

Church history contradicts the bolding part. One of the hundreds of myths that we have in the Church.

Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

I think it was more like... well yes you have a choice, but if you don't do it you also lose out on salvation. I think one of the wives of Joseph wrote that as part of her journal? Where do we have that again LDS_forever?

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall... Studies Doctrine Mormon

I think is on page 1 of this thread. The girl was a 17 years old teenager called Lucy Walker, she rejected the marriage proposal of the Prophet Joseph Smith several times but he was insisting. Joseph told Lucy that as a witness she would receive the most 'sweetful feeling she ever felt' but that she also had until the next morning to get that answer if not the doors of heaven will be shut for her forever. She got her answer the same night.

Page 64 Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

Just starting this thread, and thought I would through this new translation into the mix"¦ I hope it makes you think.

This verse is generally not interpreted correctly by Mormons who want it to condone polygamy, IMO. Notice that the women have "reproach". Reproach refers to shame, disgrace, scorn or contempt, etc.. It is not positive. Somehow, by being called by the name of the man they loose their reproach. They will support themselves by providing their own food, clothes and living. Notice that this contradicts the law of Polygamy as set forth by the church in which the man provided the food, housing and clothes and the women were always the more righteous and worthy qualifying them for the sealing blessing, being clean every wit thus having no reproach.

This verse is more correctly linked with the previous chapter, Isaiah 3 which ends with the following two verses:

Before this it talks of terrible things. When the Bible was passed down and written and rewritten there were errors created. One such error was that this verse was linked to the wrong chapter. The concept is that the men are killed in war and battles to the point that there are very few men. Anyone want to guess at what the phrase "her gates shall lament and mourn" refers to? The "gates" are her, huh, well, you know, her gates! , I think you get it"¦ If not, ask your parents, hahaha. ;-)

So the women will be so numerous compared to the men who remain that in order to have children, the women will shack up with the guys in a polygamist relationships of sorts. Multiple women to each man, but not more than a governmental marriage as in till death do us part. Not sealed, not recognized by God. The men not being able to support the women will turn them down until the women tell them, "we will support ourselves" just let us take your name, (last name as is custom), and allow us to have children with you, (being good people wanting to not have sex out of marriage).

The scripture goes on to say, meanwhile, back at the ranch or in this case the branch of the Lord... Then it goes on to talk about how the righteous who have escaped the world will be fairing wonderfully. Wow, what Hope! There will be righteous cities which will not be effected by the wickedness of the world.

I just wanted to set the record straight"¦ I"ll keep reading now"¦

Shall Women Day That Marriage Plural

Someone brought up that argument before as you will see in the Thread, then they later recanted. I was actually reading these scriptures today, a dualistic prophecy really, part of which I feel will be evident in the Millennial period.

Rather off topic, but... Read through the Threads first before replying, yes, I know it is a long read, but it lets you know what we already know / Discussed.

Plural Marriage: In That Day Seven Women Shall...

This would be silly as they could be sealed to their own husbands and then take their sealing elsewhere"¦

What would have happened if they had said "No"?

There is a very little know event we are seeing here. This was actually not a success for Joseph Smith. It is the most difficult transition that very few people are able to make. Those who don't make the transition are supported, and will be exalted, but deal with stuff like this, until they finally transition"¦ Having your Calling and Election made sure is required before having such a trial as this. The Elizabeth Smart kidnapper was also at this transition point and failed. I will explain more when I finish reading the entire thread...

I agree. The reason for doing this is because it is far easier to destroy a teaching by focusing on the flaws of the messenger than on a message. Just as People focused on Joseph Smith and not the teachings. Look at the teachings, not the messenger. This is a tactic used by people who are not interested in truth, but who are interested in supporting their own beliefs. By this alone, you can know that any evidence presented by FARMS in biased and cannot be trusted to be an honest consideration of facts and willingness to change to be inline with truth.

Discussing Brigham Young Discourse, all quotes below:

- Only 1 sin cannot be forgiven in this world or the next. The Unpardonable sin against the Holy Ghost.

- He is referring to those sins which under the law of Moses required the blood of that man/woman be shed. One such sin was adultery. Christ showed that the woman caught in the act of adultery who was about to be stoned should not be. If her salvation was dependant on her blood being spilt, then Christ would have had compassion on her and helped save her by killing her. This was the mentality of his day, and the mentality of Brigham Young at this time. Brigham young did not understand a few things. He was trying to make sense of things himself, just as we all do. I will go into this later as well as it relates to my comment above.

- Not happy, wonder why. Aren't they following the plan of happiness which is eternal? If they are not happy here, in this life being in a polygamist relationship, will they magically become happy in the eternal world? What will change? Will their husband somehow magically have more time for them? Will they be given some secret knowledge that will make it all right? Yes? If they will be given the knowledge later, then they are not being persuaded now. If they are not being persuaded now, why then were they marrying into such situations?

Because their eternal happiness was at stake and could be saved by a short period of misery. Obey now or go to eternal hell. What would you do if you were under such duress? Were they persuaded to live as a second or third wife? Yes, as much as I would persuade someone to give me their money with a gun in my hand. Except that my bullet is an eternal bullet that will damage their state of happiness for all eternity. That is the persuasion used in this article. Its called the BIG the stick. And when a leader puts God's name on it, wow, that stick packs quite the punch!

There is no greater bondage then the prison created in the mind by the fear of endless and eternal damnation!

- There you have it, the reason for plural marriage according to Brigham young, as President of the Church.

If there were enough men to women, would plural marriage still be needed according to this definition? No because a man could love the woman during the 9 months of pregnancy rather than spending that time producing more children with other women...

Speaking of the children, he said, the women can have them! What about them being his posterity? Was he willing to give them up eternally or just for this life? Whether in this life or the next, it seems he was willing to give them up easily? It is difficult to have a relationship with that many children. Which then brings the question of bring children to homes where the Father is not able to father them and assist in raising them. So are these many spirits being brought into a home that is quality? A home where once a month your father visited your mother and her children for a day or two? How does this help those great and Noble spirits have the best God can give? (I am a relative of Brigham young, but in the west, who isn't?)

- These are states of the natural man and the curses of that natural state. When we become changed from the natural man which is an enemy of God, the men shall have their affections toward their women, and neither the man nor the woman shall rule the other, but they will be totally equal and united in persuaded agreement in all things.

Rather off topic, but... I read your response above afterposting this. I will not make any further posts until I complete the thread..

Edited: Amonhi on 8th Sep, 2008 - 6:26am

Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... - Page 64

I know this will make a lot of women mad and probably men to. I love women, and a few of them love me. The more the merrier.

I don't really see the problem with polygamy in the right situation. The Flds are messed up. They really are, and they need to get dealt with.

I also know that if I make the celestial kingdom that I will be outnumbered. And that is fine with me.

I think that it is in man to want many wives so they can create, and that is only done with females.

I really don't have a problem with it as long as it is done with dignity and respect. I am actually celibate now, but wouldn't mind this law at all being reintroduced. If I live to see it.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone, but it is the truth. It is just how I feel and I am getting sick of being told that I am supposed to think a certain way.

It is O.K in this society to sleep around and experiment, but not O.K to have wives with many kids?

To all of you that believe in all of this womens' right movement; How is that working out for you?

....Whatever

Edited: Quasar on 14th Sep, 2008 - 3:00am

Plural Marriage That Day Women Shall... Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 64

Quasar, your angle is pure physiological and to fulfill the need to procreate? I think that is what turns off most women. If you had to make love to a tree in order to procreate would you be as desirous to do it or is it just a mere fantasy?

NOTE: There are a lot of Topics in the public Boards that handle Polygamy outside of religion, you may wish to visit some of those.

In this Thread we are mainly debating this:

1. Why the Church stopped the practice
2. Why they deny it existed or its importance
3. Why the Brethren continued to practice long after the Manifesto
4. When will it return

You may wish to read through this Thread.