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Sister and Brothers Dress Properly - Page 4

Thanks for the reference JB.  I never understood why a white shirt, and didn't care all that much about it to wonder why.  Elder Holland's explanation makes perfect sense to me!

It is always best to understand the reason behind something because if you don't know what the white shirt is supposed to symbolize then what is the point in wearing it. ;D

Properly Dress Brothers Sister

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Nighthawk, you talk like a rebel. ..... That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic.

Perhaps I am a rebel.

Perhaps his "suggestion" wasn't intended to pharisaic or fomalistic, yet as everyone has seen, it is.  As you have all told me over and over, we won't be led astray by the Brethren, so when they make a suggestion like this, it has the effect of law, whether they want it to or not.

Lets look at a few other suggestions.  Short hair and no facial hair at BYU.  Except of course, if your religion desires it (Muslim, Sikh, Judaism, etc), but certainly no self-respecting Mormon boy.  It is ALL image, left over from the '60s and '70s.

Brigham Young explained that any Mormon boy who had short hair and was clean shaven was heading for apostacy.  He didn't WANT us to be like the world in image.  Now we do an awful lot to hold up an image of us being harmless, quiet, and respectable.

One of the GAs "suggested" that it probably isn't a good idea to drink Coca Cola.  That's all it was, a suggestion, back in the '50s or early '60s.

There are others.

I am not talking about immodest dress.  My son, who is a Deacon, generally wears a white shirt that has thin, light blue stripes on it.  We make him wear a tie.  But if he doesn't, does it really detract from the sacrament?  Would you rather tell a young man who is struggling a bit with all of it that he can't pass the sacrament if he doesn't wear a tie, or go get the ugliest tie you can find and make him wear it (humiliate him, of course).  What an excellent way to drive him away.

I can give other examples.  The fact is, we have become pharisaic.  Image is far too important, and frequently (not always) trumps spirituality.  Consider the recent policy that no man can serve as a temple worker if he has facial hair.  What difference does it really make?  Would they say that to the resurrected Brigham Young?  Actually don't answer, some people WOULD.

NightHawk

Sister and Brothers Dress Properly Studies Doctrine Mormon

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Perhaps his "suggestion" wasn't intended to pharisaic or fomalistic, yet as everyone has seen, it is.  As you have all told me over and over, we won't be led astray by the Brethren, so when they make a suggestion like this, it has the effect of law, whether they want it to or not.

We ought not to consider what members deem as right and what the Lord accepts as right. For instance if you wear a blue shirt to priesthood each Sunday you can still get a temple recommend, will the member wish you wore a white shirt instead? Probably, but then what does it matter who thinks what? At the same time if you had the chance to buy either a white or blue shirt for Church will you purposely pick the blue one? If so why? To be different? Just to say you like blue? I am trying to understand your point really?

Page 4 Properly Dress Brothers Sister

Nighthawlk, I understand what you mean and you have a point about the image thing being more important than the spiritual part of us. We should be more concern about us (inside) than outside. JesusChrist gave so many talks about it in the Scriptures. But I don't see anything wrong with what the Church 'suggest' about a white shirt and being shaved. The white shirt because of symbolism and for the men to be shaved because is cleaner! in my opinion of course. What is wrong with trying to look presentable, clean, church-goers? Just because a person  wears a white shirt it doesn't make him more spiritual or better than the one who wears a blue one instead...or to the guy who wears a T-shirt. They are ALL welcome to the Church but in my experience with non-members or recent converts when they see most people dress in a certain way they want to 'join' to 'fit in' and they start wearing the same kind of clothing. Other people do not have that blessing and they wear only what they can afford. But other people do it out of rebellion, just because they want to be different or see the reaction of the members. I think this is childish.
I remember reading a story years ago about this little boy from Guatemala, Pres. Kimball was going to visit his Branch (it was a very poor branch). The Primary organized a little choir to welcome the Prophet. This little boy was very sad because he didn't have a white shirt to wear to Church and he wanted to have one so the Prophet can see him. His family was extremely poor and they could not afford buying a new shirt. Then the grandmom had an idea, she would take one of  those big white flour bags (plastic ones) and she will sew a shirt for the kid. And she did...the day came and the Prophet showed up. The little boy happily shook the hands with the Prophet and was proud to wear his white flour bag shirt to receive the Prophet of God....

Everytime I hear this story it humbles me so much...and makes me grateful for the blessings I enjoy. Why to waste time thinking whether should I wear the blue one, the white one or the green one?. If one of the special witnesses of Christ suggested we should wear a white shirt then is good...I have never seen any Prophet with a colored shirt to Church but again, nothing will be wrong if they do. My point is why we try sometimes to annoy people by pretending to be different? don't we want to be one in Zion? one in vision? one in purpose?. Yes, it all starts with small things like this....

Properly Dress Brothers Sister

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But I don't see anything wrong with what the Church 'suggest' about a white shirt and being shaved. The white shirt because of symbolism and for the men to be shaved because is cleaner! in my opinion of course. What is wrong with trying to look presentable, clean, church-goers?

Look at what you said again.  Shaved, because it is cleaner?  When Brigham Young, John Taylor, and Lorenzo Snow are seen as resurrected beings, do you expect them to be clean shaven?  How about the Father and the Son?  Joseph Smith said that they were bearded!  Again, it is purely IMAGE!  We want to appear respectable before the WORLD, or in other words, we want to be loved by Babylon.

Jesus wore a red coat.

Again, the suggestion carries the weight of law.  People are actually ostracized for wearing different types of clothes, especially in Utah.

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that there is nothing wrong with appearing clean and presentable.  I don't like it when I see women attending Relief Society dinners at church, wedding receptions, baptisms, etc, dressed in slacks.  I don't like seeing men wearing casual clothes to meetings.  I wear a nice shirt (usually white, but my wife bought me a very nice grey shirt) and a very colorful tie (I hate boring, bland ties).  At the moment, I don't have a decent suit, and have a very difficult time justifying the cost of one.  Clothes just aren't important enough to me.

We have fought with our two teenaged daughters about modest clothing, so modest is great, no matter what the rest of the style.  The same with my sons.  They are wearing decent, clean clothes.  I don't think it is worthwhile fighting to make sure it is the exact image that so many people want to see.

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We ought not to consider what members deem as right and what the Lord accepts as right. ..... At the same time if you had the chance to buy either a white or blue shirt for Church will you purposely pick the blue one?

You are right, we shouldn't consider what other members deem as right.  That is my whole point.  What makes you think the Lord expressly wants you to wear a white shirt and a bland tie?

Most likely, I would buy a white shirt.  But my wife would buy me a pink, blue, or grey shirt.  Since I rarely shop for clothes, I would wear what she bought for me.

NightHawk

Sister and Brothers Dress Properly

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You are right, we shouldn't consider what other members deem as right.  That is my whole point.  What makes you think the Lord expressly wants you to wear a white shirt and a bland tie?

Re-read the quote from Elder Holland endorsed by the Prophet and same said Church that you believe in and are a member. Nuff said.

Sister Brothers Dress Properly - Page 4

Here is something that local units should be doing as a regular part of their activities in my opinion:

PROMOTING MODEST CLOTHING
See Link

In Naperville, Illinois, several members of the Church are taking steps to
promote modesty. Last year, they formed a committee to find modest yet
stylish formalwear for young women. The committee came up with a handful
of companies that offer a selection of these types of gowns. Several of these
dresses will be modeled by local teenage girls at the "Modest Elegance,
It's for Me" fashion show Saturday night at a local meetinghouse of the
Church.

Sister Brothers Dress Properly Mormon Doctrine Studies - Page 4

I agree with you on this, JB. The young women in my stake did just this last year, and I hear that it will happen again this year. But not at the Stake building, it was held at one of the stores in Portland. I don't shop in Portland, so I am not familiar with what stores there are there, but I think it was like Meier & Frank or Nordstrom's. The store actually found the gowns and the young women modeled them. It was quite an experience for all involved. The Womens Formal Wear Buyer at whichever store just happens to be a member of the Church! That is how the store got involved.

I think that not only should there be more modest formal wear and casual wear for the young women, but I think that the young men should be taught how to dress modestly too! I am so sick and tired of seeing so much bare bottom on the young men, with those "Baggy" pants that fall off of them. And it is not just the young men. The 7 and 8 years olds are influenced by this too. And the bare midriff on the young girls!

I also am from the 'Old School' of when you come to Church you wear shoes or dress sandals and NOT the $1.99 beach flip flops. AND you wear hose! That goes for Men/Boys and Women/Girls. Nothing is more gross than seeing dirty bare feet in flip flops in Church!

For 3 hours,one day a week to wear hose and respectful shoes is not going to kill you.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Edited: AGene on 20th Mar, 2004 - 3:56am